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| [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3], 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ] |
| Subject: Because I live in Scotland... | |
Author: Dave (UK) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 16:11:10 01/06/05 Thu In reply to: Andrew 's message, "langwidjz" on 15:54:28 01/06/05 Thu ...and I see lots of Gaelic programmes on T.V where English words are used frequently to describe the modern world, where no Gaelic word exists. Now, I realise that English has "borrowed" words from other languages. However, Gaelic only seems to borrow words from one language - English. This begs the obvious question: Why not borrow all the words and speak English? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: but you still don't speak it | |
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Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:22:41 01/06/05 Thu "and I see lots of Gaelic programmes on T.V where English words are used frequently to describe the modern world, where no Gaelic word exists." Actually you're wrong. All this shows is that the speaker doesn't know the Gaelic word, not that the word doesn't exist. In many cases it does. I once saw a programme where the speaker used the word "ferry" and "cousin", yet when I asked someone else, I found there was several words for both. That just shows up the fact that the state never educated speakers properly in their native tongue, not the lack of words. "However, Gaelic only seems to borrow words from one language - English. This begs the obvious question: Why not borrow all the words and speak English?" Yet a quick bit of research shows that it has borrowed words from French, Latin, Greek and Norse... hmm. Perhaps you need to do some reading up. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: OK, I'll rephrase... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:33:55 01/06/05 Thu I meant that Gaelic tends to borrow new words from English. I was not referring to the the source of old words. With regard to the T.V programmes, you think it is more likely that presenters from the Western Isles do not know the word for computer, rather than the word simply being borrowed from English? Supposition, don't you think? [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: The state? | |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:56:23 01/06/05 Thu Crikey, the State is supposed to be educating people now, is it? Gawd help us. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Opera vs welsh | |
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Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:11:50 01/06/05 Thu "Crikey, the State is supposed to be educating people now, is it? Gawd help us." I mean "education" in the broadest sense of the word. The 1872 Education act meant that effectively all education had to be done through English, whether or not the child spoke it or not. It's only recently that's been reversed. It would have been far better to teach them English through their own language than give them teachers who spoke nothing else and used corporal punishment to enforce it. The only reason there's any Welsh tv is due to hunger strikes. More people speak Welsh than are interested in opera, but the BBC had no problem showing opera from the year dot. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Welsh more popular? | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:32:50 01/06/05 Thu Less than 40% of the Welsh speak Welsh, less than half of that as a first language. Speaking Welsh does not mean one does not like Opera and it would be silly to think the majority of Welsh speakers (those that have it as second language) prefer to watch those frankly rather poor quality Welsh-language sitcoms other than as extra revision on spekaing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Opera or Wpyra? | |
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Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:49:18 01/06/05 Thu Owain, as you know, Opera is a mainly upper class minority interest, yet it has always been publicly funded up to the eyeballs. There's been no deliberate attempts here to wipe it out. Yet I think it's a fairly good bet that more people know a good deal of Welsh in the UK than are hardcore opera fans. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I seriously doubt that | |
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Author: Owain (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 18:24:34 01/06/05 Thu There are more upper class Englishmen than there are Welshmen let alone those that speak Wlesh so I find that unlikely. Oh and at the Welsh "national" opera they have operatic performances in Welsh. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Really | |
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Author: Andrew [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:14:05 01/06/05 Thu "I meant that Gaelic tends to borrow new words from English." When a Gael talks about spaghetti is that English or not? I tend to think it's Italian. English has no word for tomatoes, bananas, potatoes, oranges, automobiles and dozens of other everyday things. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: *Sigh* | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:28:55 01/06/05 Thu [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Once again: Dear God! | |
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Author: Ed Harris (London) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:33:13 01/06/05 Thu I think that this ends the debate for me. All words come from somewhere. "Orange" can be traced back to arabic, along with giraffe (ziraffa) and gazelle (ghazahl). Heaven knows where "tomato" comes from. "Potato" is, presumably, a Native American word. The point is that these exist in different forms in different languages. You might as well say that the French "Eglise" for 'church' is not French, it is Greek, because it comes from "ekklesia" meaning 'assembly'. There was someone else on this forum who argued that English didn't really exist because 'admirable' was clearly just the Latin 'mirabile' in disguise, and other such nonsense. Enjoy the rest of your debate - it has become a little absurd for my tastes. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: as a gaelic learner... | |
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Author: maren girvilas [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:11:52 01/07/05 Fri ... living in germany, i find it quite sad and weird to see such contempt against the gaelic language, expressed by scottish people, popping up now and again in such discussions. i'm involved with several european minority languages, and nowhere else do i hear such stupid attacks against a language than in scotland or maybe also ireland. other countries have obviously learned from the flaws of history and have developed a more positive attitude towards their multilingual culture. gaelic is a language the whole country could be proud of. instead, some people treat it as if it were a sickness. maren [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: well said, Maren | |
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Author: Ian (Australia) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 20:05:21 01/07/05 Fri I studied Gaelic at university in Australia (along with German and Murrinh-Patha), and I certainly don't feel it was time wasted. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hi Maren... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 19:30:56 01/08/05 Sat Welcome to the forum... The Scots are a practical people, so please do not confuse pragmatism with contempt. We have often placed praticality before nostalgia... [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Linguistic Terrorists | |
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Author: Nick (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:06:43 01/12/05 Wed Unfortunately I certainly feel that Scots and Irish Gaelic are commonly presented as a manifestation of Nationalism in Scotland and Ireland, and I imagine that they earn contempt from many English speakers and unionists more for that reason than pure ignorance. Remember that the majority of the ancestors of the modern day populations of Scotland and Northern Ireland (particularly Scotland which has been mostly English speaking since English was invented) never spoke Gaelic, yet many 'Gaels' try to present their languages as central to those places history, nationhood and 'otherness' in relation to the 'English'. Personally I find this a provocation and an irritation, and it makes me less positively disposed to the languages than I would be otherwise. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |