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| Subject: Happy Burns Day to all Scots | |
Author: Jim (Canada) | [ Next Thread |
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] Date Posted: 16:27:07 01/25/05 Tue In reply to: Dave (UK) 's message, "Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face," on 15:35:34 01/25/05 Tue [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] |
| [> Subject: Burns wanted an INDEPENDENT Scottish republic | |
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Author: Such a parcel of rogues in a nation [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 16:44:24 01/25/05 Tue I'm sure he'd be turning in his grave by being hijacked by a bunch of reactionary hard right imperialists. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> Subject: Hmm | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 17:13:00 01/25/05 Tue Reactionary? Certainly not, I would say that is more of a charge to be levelled at those who wish to see Scotland return to 1706. We are looking forward, and finding the best solution to serve the interests of the Crown Commonwealth nations in the long term. Imperialists? Well, no, we want to create a new federal democracy, not an empire. Hard-right? How do you define that, like Hitler? Is it more a case of holding a different opinion from yourself? I'm sorry that you feel the expression of Scottish identity that exists throughout the Commonwealth can only be expressed legitimately, by a fanatical diatribe against all things English, British and Commonwealth. It was the result of looking outward not inward that spawned the Scottish Enlightenment in the 18th Century. It was progressive optimism, not narrow-minded defeatism that built the Forth Rail Bridge, and it was not parochial nationalism that created the engineering and scientific genius that Scotland is famous for. Contrast your warped view of the past with today, where Scotland’s “hard-left” socialism has not served her very well now, has it? There will be many more than Burns turning in their graves because of this. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> Subject: ah the empire ! | |
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Author: Iain [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 22:35:51 01/25/05 Tue Yeah, and there's them poor punters in the Irish republic pleading to get back into the "union". The Forth rail bridge and the Scottish enlightenment were a wee bit before I was born. I would much prefer to look forward to the days when we as a nation have the self-belief to define ourselves by who we are rather than the hopeless dependency culture that seems to have existed for my entire duration on this planet. I would suggest that it is in fact views like yours that are trying to drag us back us back into some imaginery utopian past. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |
| [> [> [> [> Subject: Let me elaborate... | |
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Author: Dave (UK) [ Edit | View ] |
Date Posted: 11:37:44 01/26/05 Wed Far from yearning for a utopian past, I am identifying with the idea of a better future. We already define ourselves by who we are - a constituent country of a nation of English speaking peoples under a single Sovereign. We have shared this island with our neighbours for over a thousand years and as a single nation for the last 300, which must surely count as the most notable, successful and progressive three centuries in Scotland's history. I want to extend this partnership to everyone in the world who shares our identity, culture, language and political system, not break it up by erecting artificial barriers. You say that Scotland should be free to determine our own destiny. It's interesting that you use the RoI as a role model for a future Scotland. The idea that Scotland can prosper as some kind of economic dream like the RoI's "Celtic Tiger" is passé for several reasons. Ireland's economic growth rate was spectacular, but was based on growing from a low starting point, and by getting money hand-over-fist from the EU for over a decade - a dependency culture if ever there was one. This bubble has burst, as EU money is now being diverted to Eastern Europe and the accession countries. So this is not something that we should, or indeed could, emulate. We will see in another 10 years whether Ireland still has the same enthusiasm for the EU that it has now. Given that the SNP's policy is to swap Government from London by Government from Brussels, and to swap the pound for the Euro, I think their notion of self-determination is laughable. If on the other hand, you believe in independence outwith the EU, then that is a more credible position to take. However, I have no confidence in the leadership of the current devolved Scotland, and I see no reason why this should change in an independent Scotland. A ten-fold over-spend on the Parliament building was not a good start. To provide Scotland with a competitive advantage, we need lower taxation, less regulation and a more business friendly environment. None of these things will be provided by the current Stalinist domination of Socialism as seen in the Scottish Parliament. You mentioned correctly that the Forth Rail Bridge was built a long time ago, as if somehow the past is an irrelevance, of which there are no lessons to be learned. I was drawing parallels between the differences in attitudes now and then. For example, only recently, a Scottish Parliament committee admitted that the skills were not present in Scotland to build Edinburgh's proposed tram network. Is this not a damning indictment on Scotland's current devolved administration? I firmly believe that if the amoebic life forms that preside over our devolved administration are given a free-hand, then we might as well re-erect Hadrian's wall to stem the exodus of hard-working, over-taxed professionals to more inviting shores, of which, I will be first in line. [ Post a Reply to This Message ] |