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Date Posted: - Sunday - 09/17/06 - 6:36pm
Author: Mike Anthony
Subject: M-40 headstay, I need help
As you may or may not be aware my wife and I are restoring a 1972 M-40, Tivoli. The new engine is in, the cockpit finished, most essential systems completed and will be operational within the next week or so, we will then launch the boat in Warwick RI and take around to Deep River CT where we will rehaul the boat to finish our project (Deep River is much closer to our home). Problem: We will be stepping the masts in a week or so (they are the orginal sitka spruce), we have never had them up, however, this past weekend I attached all of the standing rigging to both the mizzen and main, we will not be using sails on this trip. All of the hardware was there except for the cable that goes from the main masthead to the bow sprint. Question, does anyone know how long it should be? Do I have to cut off yet another arm and hire a rigger to figure out or can I do this myself?
Thanks in advance for any help
Mike and Paula
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Use Sta-Lok or Norseman Fittings -- Capt'n Mike - Gypsy Mariner TM36K, - Sunday - 09/17/06 - 10:02pm
I'd use Sta-Lok or Norseman fittings. First, I'd measure the distance from the end of the mast where the mast steps on the cabin top to the masthead fitting ("A"). Next I'd measure the length from the mast where it steps on the cabin top to the cranze iron fitting on the bow sprit ("B"). I'd solve the geometry problem I thought I'd never use in the real world: (A x A) + (B x B) = (C x C). "C" should give a rough estimate of the length of the forestay. Then I'd add some extra feet (5 or so) to account for the height difference between the deck and the cabin top height and to account for the B I made in Geometry! Given the "I" length in the M40 specs listed on this website, I'd guess 55 feet of wire would be enough. I'd make a wire of this length and attach a Sta-Lok or Norseman eye fitting at the end where it attached to the masthead. Then I'd attach it to the masthead, step the mast, and then take the wire to the end of the bow sprit and measure carefully for the Sta-Lok or Norseman stud fitting to attach to wire. This is the tricky part. Better too long than too short! Also, keep in mind that the backstay(s) and the bobstay need to be properly adjusted. Cut the wire and attach the stud and screw it into the turnbuckle.
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M-40 head stay -- Mike Anthony, - Monday - 09/18/06 - 6:06am
Capt'n Mike,
Thanks for the help, I will not be bending any sails for this short trip, however, next spring before I put her in I will have to hire riggers. I noticed you indicated the back stay and bobstay need to be properly adjusted. If there are no sails how important is the tension as long as everything is tight and straight. Is this somthing I could do myself or am I going to need a rigger for this as well?
Thank you so much for your help
Island Mike
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Try Low Stretch Line -- Capt'n Mike - Gypsy Mariner TM36K, - Monday - 09/18/06 - 8:28am
When it comes time to do the rigging, I recommend that you do it yourself with Sta-Lok or Norsemand fittings. It really is very easy AND not rocket science. Buy Brion Toss's book "The Rigger's Apprentice." I think you will find that it is a job you can do yourself and save a lot of money. You will do a better job on your boat than if you paid someone. Plus it will allow you the confidence to do your own repairs. For now, if you are not going to bend on any sail and are in somewhat protected waters, I think you could just use a high quality, low stretch line for the forestay... but make absolutely sure the line you use is rated for the load AND you tie a very good knot! But once again, rigging today with modern do-it-yourself fittings really is easy and if you do it now you won't regret it.
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M-40 head stay -- Mike Anthony, - Monday - 09/18/06 - 9:46am
Capt'n Mike,
I think you are absolutely correct with all of your advice, as I look into it I am confident I can do it myself. You have been a great help, Thank you very much.
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M-40 head stay -- Kathy Campbell SHADOW 323, - Tuesday - 09/19/06 - 12:02am
Hey Mike,
After my, sad and expensive, experience with (professional) riggers, the more of your own rigging you do the better. I agree with Capt'n Mike. You'll get a better job if you do the rigging yourself. Do get Brian Toss's Riggers Apprentice an learn to do the job yourself. You can even call Brian's shop an ask them questions, but watchout, cause they'll tell you to bring your boat over to the shop. For me and SHADOW that would be over a 1000+ miles up to Washington. You can get videos that show you how to tune your masts. If I'd known this before, my Mariner 32 would still be in the water an not on the hard cause the rigger tightened the shrouds to tight an literaly cracked one of the main beams under the main mast. So, anyway, that's what I've been doing all spring an summer long, digging out the broken beam under the mast. It's out now and I was going to laminate 1/4' strips of red oak with resorsinal glue. Like I'm the seasoned shipwright! I'm all ears if there are any other ideas out there in the Mariner family. So, don't let this avoidable situation happen to you.
Yours truly, Kathy Campbell
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Moon Dance Dolphin Striker -- Susie (Confused), - Monday - 09/18/06 - 5:00pm
Any idea's on how to rebuild the dolphin striker on a Mariner 40? I'm at a loss...is there a formula to figure the length?
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Do you mean bobstay or dolphin striker? -- Capt'n Mike - Gypsy Mariner, - Monday - 09/18/06 - 7:16pm
Do you mean the length of the "bobstay wire" OR the length of the "dolphin striker"? There are math formulae involved in these calculations too, but it basically comes down to the loads that can be handled by the fittings and the angle or leverage forces of the opposing stay. Making the dolphin striker longer will increase the staying angle for the bobstay and, thus, decrease the wire diameter (strength) needed to counter the forestay. The problem with making the dolphin striker too long is that it becomes more likely to be damaged by striking objects in the water (like dolphins)!
You could do away with the dolphin striker altogether and increase the diameter (strength) of the bobstay. This assumes you also increase the size of the pins, pin holes, turnbuckles, studs and any other associated rigging. This sometimes cannot be done without replacing chain plates and other hardware such as the cranse iron. I haven't done the math and probably won't, but the dolphin striker on the Mariner might be just for aesthetics. I personally like the looks of a dolphin striker, but the Bob Perry designed Tayana 37 has similar a similar bowsprit length and forestay staying angles to the Mariner 36 and 40's without a dolphin stiker. I think it uses a 1/2" diameter wire for the bobstay.
So, to answer the question of how long the dolphin striker should be depends on a lot of varibles. If you have the original bobstay wire and dolphin striker, just make new ones of the same length and diameter. If you don't care for the looks of the dolphin striker, then you can go without the dolphin stiker and increase the diameter of the bobstay wire and associated fittings. You can also rebuild like the original by getting the length of another M40's dolphin stiker and the bobstay wire diameter (3/8"?). My dolphin striker on my TM36 is about 25 inches long and the bobstay wire is 3/8 inch. I don't recall the length of the bobstay on Gypsy Mariner because I used Sta-Lok fittings and cut the wire to fit to the length of the dolphin stiker as it was fabricated in place.
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Bobstay -- Susie (Thankful), - Wednesday - 09/20/06 - 10:14am
I guess I need info. on both. I think the original owners reconstructed the bobstay and dolphin striker in a way that caused it to break off, perhaps the angles and lengths were wrong. Thanks for your suggestions...I am open to any kind of suggestion that would get this boat back to her original splendor.
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circuit breakers -- Tim Pruss, - Tuesday - 09/19/06 - 4:46pm
I redid my electrical this year, including movingn and replacing my panels. The panels are gone, but I have the old breakers to pass on free to anyone who needs them, just for the price of shipping. These are from a 1979 Tayana Mariner 36.
The DC breakers are all Picostotz. I have 1 25A, 1 20A, and 4 10A.
The AC are Mitsubishi. I have a 30A main and 4 20A.
If they match what you have and you need replacements, e-mail me off-list. I don't get here that often.
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