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Date Posted: 18:44:12 02/19/03 Wed
Author: merrick981
Subject: we need to schedule a time and day for people to vote on BB...a deadline
Ok, it seems as if we have received some input on the BB for the season, and for the arcs (so to speak) for the characters, so lets try to get this organized cause I'm excited to get started.
Lets try to set a deadline, say by Sunday night Eastern Time, for a BB and little Bads to be decided on, that way we can hopefully start writing next week, before interest is lost.
here is the updated "crowd favorites" for BB's and Little Bads. Please add if you idea isn't included.
-a vamped slayer
-The Dark One/Bringer
-Watcher's Council/preserved Watchers
-D'Hoffryn
-Drusilla
-TPTB
-Gypsies/evil wiccas
-The first vampire
these are what i've seen, with a few of my ideas. Truthfully, all of these could be used at some point, and should/could be included. Please pick the order you like.
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Four Horsemen -- Sgt. Rock, 19:21:58 02/19/03 Wed
The four horsemen of the apocalypse leading to Judgement Day.
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My problem with the Four Horsemen idea -- Mark, 19:43:09 02/19/03 Wed
I have two main problems with the four hoursemen idea. First of all, of course 'Buffy' has very religious themes in it, with heaven and hell dimensions and demons. However, it never actually talks about God or the Devil and never directly uses religion in its main storyline. The idea of the Four Horsemen, lifted directly from the Bible, just doesn't seem like something ME would ever do. I don't think we should use just a directly religious plotline, and instead create our own mythology.
My other problem is how you say progressively throughout the season 1/3 of men would die, 1/3 of the light would go...It just seems way to bleak even for Buffy. Like how could you possibly have a light comedy episode in episde 15 or something when 1/3 of all men are killed? You know? It really hampers the balance of light/dark episodes of the season.
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 20:02:01 02/19/03 Wed
I wouldn't want to use God in the storyline (although with vamps being burned by crosses, holy water, the bible, it's not impossible) but similar with S4 of Angel constantly referring to the book of revelations, it seems like a good continuation after the sun is blocked out. Also the horsemen aren't a big part of the bible, they're mentioned over 5 passages and then not mentioned again.
I can see where you're coming from with the stages being very dramatic, but I was thinking of having them defeat the BB after the fifth token (before all the men are wiped out) which wouldn't happen to the end of ep 17. Although I suppose it could be toned down. This would also take it away from the biblical text. Though I would still like the 5th stage to be the opening of the hellmouth.
I'm open to suggestions for stages :)
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Re: -- Mark, 20:05:18 02/19/03 Wed
Yeah I do like your idea and I do think it could work if we toned down the stages and kinda got away a little from the direct Biblical reference, made it more of our own but we could still keep the important aspects. Yeagh I do think the opening of the Hellmouth should be a stage. What if one stage could be less physical harm and more psychological? Like one stage could be the hearts of men become partially filled with evil, taking away some goodness in them.
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Could the four horseman... -- Faithsguy, 20:26:43 02/19/03 Wed
be what the vamped slayer wants to raise?
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How about this... -- Sgt. Rock, 21:28:15 02/19/03 Wed
This is trying to bring a few different ideas together so bear with me:
While back in England searching through what's left of the council Giles come upon the Tiberius Manifesto. This was mentioned back in S1 as being one of the great sources of slayer prophecy. It explains about the vamped slayer who was the origin of aurelius line. This is why The Master, Angel, Dru, Darla and Spike are so powerful, and why their destinies are linked to the slayer. It gives an explanation of judgement day but is very cryptic (ie, once everything's happened the prophecies make sense, but beforehand you don't know what's going to happen)
The vamped slayer turns up in Ep 4, unleashing all kinds of mayhem in Sunnydale, but is waiting for her time to complete her task. In Episode 8 the horsemen turn up with the first in a series of jewels to bring about judgement day. The jewels fit into a altar, as each one goes in it bring the world one stage closer to judgement day (stages are visible to the world, but not too over the top, extreme weather conditions, rioting etc...). Once 5 jewels have been fit, the combined power of slayer and vampire in one being is used to open the hellmouth and bring forth the demon that bit the human thousands of years ago and created the first vampire, making it the true beginning of the line. But having been in hell for thousands of years is now huge. This happens at the end of ep 17 kicking off the big finale story arc.
This would leave the horsemen trying to get the final jewel and a huge demon to contend with for the last 5 eps.
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okay, here is my vote -- Faithsguy, 19:27:48 02/19/03 Wed
The vamped slayer scenario, as the little bad. Her ultimate agenda is to open the hellmouth and after she is defeated an enemy emerges from the hellmouth that proves to be the big bad. Take it from here!
ps, if we are using the vamped slayer as the little bad, I could write some cool stuff for her, since my eppie introduces her. I've been bored at work so I've been writing some dialogue, and its actually pretty cool, of course dont take this as "the vamped slayer is what we are doing" I'm just saying that this would prove to be an interesting and easy character to write.
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So what does the vamped slayer raise? -- Mark, 19:36:02 02/19/03 Wed
I like your idea a lot, Faithsguy. But what can the Vamped Slayer raise from the hellmouth? any ideas anyone?
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This is where I draw a blank -- Faithsguy, 19:56:57 02/19/03 Wed
But I thought It would be fun if maybe there is a prophecy somewhere that a slayer turned vamire would raise something....kinda like in season one when we had the slayer prophecies and stuff, like maybe there are lost prophecies.
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Ooh I love prophecies! -- imisstara, 19:59:41 02/19/03 Wed
Definitely think there should be prophecies involved lol.
they just make it more interesting! Whatever the thing that comes out is, I had an idea on how they could stop it. It can't be destroyed, so they're only choice is to actually reopen the Hellmouth and lure it back in and then seal it once and for all.
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I like that idea! -- Faithsguy, 20:27:31 02/19/03 Wed
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Now where talking, I like that idea to (Hellmouth demon) -- Neil, 01:11:52 02/20/03 Thu
They are always trying to stop it opening and we have never seen anything come out of there except for a few episodes!
If we go with that idea then I think someone should do a drawing of the big bad so the writers of the last few episodes will know how to describe it and what it can do.
Basically I'm not bothered who the big bad is so long as it's not:
-A normal vampire
-Watchers council
-A previous BB
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I'd like it to be something new though, our own idea/creation! -- Neil, 01:13:12 02/20/03 Thu
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ok, so lets add the Four Horsemen to the list...sorry, I forgot to add it. -- merrick981, 20:01:35 02/19/03 Wed
now, everyone needs to spend today and tomorrow racking their brains for a few more additions for a BB, so we can vote this weekend. we need to get all the writers involved here, and by this weekend, we can vote on the BB and the Little Bads for S8.
So currently we have
vamped slayer
four horsemen
the dark one,/bringer
watcher's council/preserved watchers
d'hoffryn
drusilla
tptb
gypsies
evil wiccas
first vampire
shamans??
These are just ideas, so keep adding to the list so we can make a knowledgable decision after all options have been explored. And please, no one take offense of someone disagrees with your idea,,, we are all just trying to figure out the best BB and LB for *s8*
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about the horsemen -- Sam the Eagle, 23:59:22 02/19/03 Wed
I really don't like this idea...sorry.
I think at heart it looks like a great idea, but again I don't like the religious connotations of it...also umm they did it on charmed and you know what people are like about comparing Buffy and Charmed. I wouldn't want to face that.
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Re: -- Sgt. Rock, 00:48:34 02/20/03 Thu
That's ok, I really don't like the idea of re-animated watchers! :P
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
I think that the end of the day the show takes christianity as being the thing vampires fear, so you've got to accept there's something to it (at least in the writers pov).
Buffy and Charmed are similar because their premise is similar, you can't escape them having similar stuff going on. I only vaguely remember the horsemen on Charmed, so they can't have been very good!
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Prophecies. -- JSlayerUK, 00:36:10 02/20/03 Thu
I'm against prophecies. They never end well. Especially if they involve the Slayer. Because I've read countless fics where people forget that Buffy is outside the prophecy circle. Buffy was prophecised to die at the hands of the Master and never return. Hence why she's never appeared in a prophecy since.
So if it's a prophecy, and it involves the Buffster, I'm thinking no.
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hey JSlayerK, quick tidbit -- Faithsguy, 01:15:47 02/20/03 Thu
The prophecies I were thinking about would lead the gang to believe they are about Faith and Buffy, when really they are about the vamped slayer...
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