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Date Posted: 20:23:04 07/03/03 Thu
Author: richiep (and I work in sales, so I know a bit about this business)
Subject: Before you sign up on the DNC list, you might want to think...

about he economic impact of it. I know, I know... you all hate telemarketing so much that your all doing back flips about this new law. But before you tar and feather me for supporting this industry (I support anyone's right to ASK me to do something, and no ones right to FORCE me to do something, and I like people working, not on unemployment or welfare) let me give you some facts....

Well over 3 million people in the US work in this field. Over 4% of the good sold directly to consumers is done over the phone. The average person purchases something from a telemarketer 3 times a year. And finally.. if telemarketing was so evil, so disruptive to life, and something that can easily be replaced by using other means, why did the politicians exempt themselves???

Based on projections across the board, there will be anywhere from a hundred thousand to over 2 million jobs lost as a direct result of this law. The unemployment rate today just hit a nine year high, does anyone want it to go higher?

I know its cute to say who cares? Or they deserve it, but the fact is a ton of legitimate businesses will be effected by this. Just like gun laws or tax laws, it will effect the honest people first - the crooks in the industry will be the ones who will still call people on the DNC list, in hopes of a quick score before they shut their doors and move on to set up shop somewhere else.

Its too late to stop this bill - Bush gleamed as he signed it into law (that guy will do anything he can to make him look good to Joe six-pack) and no politician wanted to dare be in favor of those evil telemarketers (except the one that call and ask you to vote for them or to give them money - they are different, I keep forgetting that) so what will happen will be happening soon enough.

In writing this, I don't even expect anyone to agree with me, or for this to even stop someone from signing up on the list - I know your hatred is set in stone. I just want you to NOT bitch and moan about new welfare programs, higher taxes, industry bailouts, extended unemployment payments or whatever else might happen within a year or so. And if you are going to bitch about it, you might want to save it for when the telemarketer that calling on behalf of your congressman calls to you to ask for your money and/or your vote. Oh yeah... please don't give him your money as you might want to save it for if an unemployed telemarketer calls you to ask for money to help pay his bills, as charity calls will be exempt too.

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[> Confessions of an ex-telemarketer: click here for more. -- "Vince From Villanova" (The view's different on the inside.), 06:09:27 07/04/03 Fri

A few years ago after I left WMEL radio, I found myself in the first honest-to-God real job search of my life. Up until that point, I'd always been able to find employment through a combination of luck and connections. This time, I was starting from scratch, and I quickly decided that I would consider no job to be "beneath me."

And that's how I came to be employed as a telemarketer. Easy job, excellent pay, potential for benefits down the road, and while I knew it would be stressful work, I figured I could handle it. And I was fairly good at it too, because I actually followed management's instructions, read the script verbatim, and actually used the snappy little objection comebacks. I consistently pulled in double-digit sales totals per day.

I didn't count on it being stressful AND dishonest work.

Like most telemarketing firms, we used a computerized and automated dialing system. It would speed-dial hundreds of phone numbers a minute, wait for a line to pick up, and shunt the call to the first-available operator... except for when all of the operators were already on other calls, in which case it would leave the person there saying "Hello? Hello? Hellooooooooooo?" into dead air and make them wait for their turn to be REALLY annoyed.

Quite a few people would let me get about 10 seconds into the spiel before they would interrupt by saying some variation on "Hell no" and hanging up on me... in which case my instructions from management were to add them back to the list to be called again. Same if the person listened to the entire spiel politely before telling me "No, thank you:" just add 'em back to the list.

See, this was perfectly legal. Technically, we could keep calling them every 5 minutes if we really wanted to, though for obvious reasons not even a telemarketing firm would want to do so... we want lots of "Yes!" answers from lots of different people, not lots of "No!" answers from the same person. But sometimes that's precisely what would happen if the computer system ran out of phone numbers. One memorable afternoon, I got the same guy 3 times in 15 minutes; I recognized him and he recognized me.

A few of the savvier targets would tell me to add them to our Do Not Call list, and my instructions from management were quite clear: hit the button on the computer to add them to the Do Not Call list for our company and thank them for their time. As for actually making sure they didn't get called again... apparently that was someone else's department. I had several memorable cases where people who were supposed to have been placed on our Do Not Call list weren't, and were called again.

And then there was the script itself: twisty, turny, curvy, and full of loopholes. And after reading it enough times to enough people ad naseum, I was finally able to wrap my entire brain around it and start forming questions. I asked 3 different managers one such question and kept getting some party line response that didn't really answer me at all. So, I slightly re-worded the question and finally tripped up a 4th manager, who unwittingly told me the truth. The details don't matter here, but suffice it to say that we were lying to the customers.

I spent the next five minutes back at my call station, mulling what to do. It was a quiet day and we were getting a lot of answering machines, but I finally reached a live one. No time to think, just read the script. So, I read the script. Verbatim. Lied to the customer. And got one more sale.

And felt awful.

I put my system on hold, marched over to the supervisor's desk and requested an immediate meeting with the manager under her open-door policy. She accepted, and I confronted her with what I'd figured out about the script and told her they needed to change it. She said if I was concerned with the integrity of the script, she'd hate to see me go, so she'd be glad to come up with a different script I could use instead.

I was surprised. "No, I think you're missing the point. That entire room out there is lying to the customers and doesn't even know it. The script needs to change for everyone."

That's when she got defensive, insisting that I was getting too technical and splitting hairs. And that's when I decided I'd had enough, and I told her then and there that I was quitting. She handed me the resignation paperwork, I signed it, and I walked back to my desk, signed out, gathered up my paperwork, and considered making a big scene. And decided against it. I was going to need another job soon, and that manager would be getting referral calls about me. So, I just walked out.

I must say, I wasn't surprised at all when they mailed me my final paycheck, and screwed me out of the commissions for all the sales I'd made in that final week. But it would've been dirty money anyway. I was better off without it.

This is a dirty industry that needs to be shut down, and this seems to me to be a great way to do it. As for the folks who will find themselves laid off, now is the time for them to start their job hunt, find a more honest line of work, quit on their own terms, and beat the rush. Every day, I drive to one of my two jobs and right past stores and restaurants that have had the same "NOW HIRING" signs in their windows for months now, and this in a supposedly "weak" economy.

There are other jobs out there for these people. They just have to expel from their heads the idea that they're too good to stand on their feet and flip burgers for 8 hours, or that working 2 jobs is out of the question, or that if the hours aren't 9-5 it's not acceptable. (One of my jobs is 11pm-7am.) Or even better, take advantage of the numerous government- and privately-run college loans and scholarships, vocational programs, or even libraries to teach themselves some actual marketable skills, so that they can get a leg up on the rest of the myrmidons out there.

I'm nobody special. If I can do it, they can too.


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[> [> I know somebody who will be locked out of this industry because of the Do Not Call list but my hate for being called is greater than my compassion for his losing a job. That's what it boils down to, people are so fed up they don't care. I feel that since I pay for the phone line I should have a say over what comes over it. If they want to call me they can pay me, in advance, for my time. -- Surf - Once it crossed the phone jack, it's MY house., 11:19:30 07/04/03 Fri


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[> [> So because the one firm you worked for was dishonest, or even if there are 5% of the firms are dishonest, we should shut down the entire industry? Should we apply that standard to other industries? I've dealt with dishonest retailers in the past, what new laws do we need to "protect us" from them? -- richiep, 13:31:57 07/05/03 Sat


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[> [> [> I'm not convinced it's just 5%. Once you've seen the tricks of telemarketers and even done them yourself, it's a bit easier to recognize them when other telemarketers do them to you, so it seems to me that my former company is the rule, not the exception. Perhaps I'm biased from my experience, but that's how I feel. -- "Vince From Villanova" (Fire 'em all, let welfare sort 'em out.), 17:08:02 07/05/03 Sat


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[> [> [> [> Vince and Surf.... (as you maybe the only ones reading this LOL) -- richiep, 19:07:22 07/05/03 Sat

Vince, I'm in sales, and a lot of its is based on tricks (in a sense). I can talk to people all day long and have them tell me after my pitch "how good it sounds" and the famous words that salespeople hear all the time "let me think about it, and I'll call you". The "trick" is to get that person to do something NOW, its not to get them to do something that they don't want to do, just to do something NOW! People all the time complain about how salespeople don't take no for an answer, but when you consider that half of all sales that are made, are after a person says "no" once, you should be happy we don't listen to the no's. What this really has to do with is human nature, and to be in sales you have to understand that.

But there are a lot of salespeople that are not honest, just like there are a lot of people that own and run businesses that are not honest, and there should be laws that go after these people. The problem with the DNC list is two-fold, first, it says that I can't call you because you choose to block out these dishonest people. That's a scary thing to say - should we come up other blanket laws? Lets pick on radio, being this board is about that. Some things that are sold on the radio have been scams, I think you would agree, right? So what should we do about that? Should we have a "do not play" list that people that don't want to these ads can sign up for?

I now everyone's going to say that's not the same but stop and think... if the airwaves belong to us, and not the stations, don't we have even more of a right to say "do not play this"?

So if the government started a list that people could sign up for and say "no ads for fast food" (as it makes people fat) and the majority of people that in the range of that station sign up, how could you say that the station would still have a right to run those ads?

Now Surf here's the problem with your thinking... you say once it crosses the phone jack, it's in your house. How does that apply to the Internet? Should we have a "do not show" list of what ads you should be allowed to show me on your website? I know you're saying that's different because me going to your site is the same as me calling you, as the website does not call me. But if I go to a site to see information on talk radio, maybe I only want to see that and no ads. Is there that much of a difference?

Think about it - you are saying that you don't want businesses calling you, unless you contacted them first. But I made no effort to contact "Express tax refund" yet I see their ad on top of this page. I know you're going to say it pays for the site, but is that my problem? You could charge a membership fee and restrict it to those who pay. In the days of paper publishing, this model worked as you could not block ads, but what about now? I have software (Norton anti-virus) that can turn off these ads - am I stealing from you if I use it? If that's legal then what about a government program to so I can say no to seeing these ads?

What about if you had a party and I was your neighbor and you didn't invite me. What if I walked up to your door and asked if I could come in? You can say no and close the door. Should the Feds also pass laws as to who can knock at your door? (I know many people would sadly say yes)

When does it stop?


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[> [> [> [> [> A radio station can't turn on my radio. I have to take a voluntary action to invite the signal into my home, and if I decide I don't want it in my home anymore, I turn it off... and it stays off. In contrast, a telemarketer can reach into my house and make my phone ring. Sure I can hang up on them. But then they can call back, and the cycle begins again, invading my implied right to privacy. It can only end with some variation on a government-enforced DNC list. -- "Vince From Villanova" (Come on in, the water's fine.), 06:30:59 07/06/03 Sun


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[> [> [> [> [> Yeah Rich, average per day unique visits for this page has fallen to around 600. Not nearly the interest level one might expect. Given the tone of some of the posts it's no wonder. -- Surf, 08:11:28 07/06/03 Sun


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