VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1[2]345678910 ]
Subject: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 17:00:51 12/10/25 Wed

As I’m watching the Yale vs Albany basketball game being held at the Mass Mutual Center in Springfield Mass I’m wondering why doesn’t the Ivy League play its tournament there. Seats 8,000 and it’s centrally located for the Ivy Schools. It used to be used for the Maac’s tournament but currently no conference is using it.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Fear the Quaker
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 06:58:28 12/11/25 Thu

I am not sure everyone would share your views, but you might be on to something.

New Haven to Springfield 65 miles.
Providence to Springfield 86 miles.
Boston to Springfield 89 miles.

Philadelphia to Springfield 234 miles.
Princeton to Springfield 190 miles
Hanover NH to Springfield 126 miles.
NYC to Springfield 141 miles
Ithaca to Springfield 250 miles
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:41:02 12/11/25 Thu

Plus the Basketball Hall of Fame makes it a marquee location.
[> Subject: Great idea, but bad timing


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:14:47 12/11/25 Thu


I hate to point out the obvious that many Ivy schools are facing loss of revenue and/or paying out million dollar settlements. It's been covered in the press extensively...

This isn't the time for extra expenditures...
[> [> Subject: Re: Great idea, but bad timing


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:33:51 12/11/25 Thu

You don’t think they could make money on it? If they cross marketed it with the basketball hall of fame I think it would draw very well. Certainly much better than what they draw playing in 1,600-2,600 seat gymnasiums.
[> [> [> Subject: Draws are only half the inquiry


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:05:33 12/11/25 Thu


How much is it going to cost us to rent the venue?
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Draws are only half the inquiry


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:17:11 12/11/25 Thu

I don’t know but I hope the Ivy League has the foresight to look into it.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Draws are only half the inquiry


Author:
Son of Eli
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:20:29 12/11/25 Thu

Grok (AI) estimates it would turn a profit.
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Local Tiger
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:45:37 12/11/25 Thu

I have been to that venue for some comedians.
There is also a large casino nearby.

I am not sure we would come close to drawing 8,000 fans in a town
with no local interest, and we would lose the attraction for some of
going to an Ivy campus. I did not get to Harvard (been there on
other occasions), but enjoyed all the others..
[> Subject: Endowment Tax Bills, Best Venue for Ivy Madness


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 10:49:19 12/11/25 Thu

The federal government has declared war on America's most well known universities.

Next year, Harvard will pay roughly $370 million (plus or minus $25 mm) to the IRS in taxes on its endowment. Yale will pay about $300 million and Princeton will pay in the neighborhood of $220 million. (The sliding scale actually hits Princeton the hardest because the tax is based upon endowment per student, where the Tigers are about 50% richer than anybody else.)

$220-370 million is the annual budget for a mid-size liberal arts college and we're going to be paying that amount in tax alone.

We're not going to be renting the Mass Mutual Center.

So I'll mention the idea I've floated many times before, the FREE option: Stabler Arena at Lehigh.

We offer the Patriot League the crown jewel of collegiate basketball in the Boston-to-DC Acela corridor, the Palestra, in return for free use of Stabler.

Problem solved for both conferences.
[> [> Subject: Re: Endowment Tax Bills, Best Venue for Ivy Madness


Author:
DeepBlue
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:23:03 12/11/25 Thu

It's not impossible that Princeton avoids the endowment tax, because it only applies to schools with more than 3,000 tuition-paying students and Princeton's recent expansion of financial aid may cause them to fall below that number - a benefit of being small relative to the other members of their very-rich peer group: https://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2025/12/princeton-data-2029-frosh-survey-blog-financial-aid-tuition-tax-endowment
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Endowment Tax Bills, Best Venue for Ivy Madness FREE TUITION


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:46:54 12/11/25 Thu

DeepBlue, your point is fascinating. Think about the numbers here:

Princeton could theoretically avoid paying $220 million in federal endowment tax if it can get the number of tuition-paying students down below 3,000.

Like many of the Ivies, I believe that Princeton already offers free tuition, room and board to students whose familes make less than, say, $150,000 ballpark. It's free tuition only for families which earn less than $250,000.

Let's just assume that Princeton currently has 3,500 students who currently pay something -- even one dollar -- for their tuition bill.

It is **JUST AS CHEAP** for Princeton University to offer free full tuition to all 3,500 of those students (3,500 times $65,000 = $227.5 million) than it is to pay $220 million in endowment tax.

Given that some of those 3,500 students already pay something toward their tuition, it will be far less than $227.5 million for Princeton to charge $0 in tuition.

Logically, tuition at Princeton in 2026 should be $0.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Fascinating


Author:
sparman
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:25:57 12/11/25 Thu

Someone else can research the legislative history behind this particular limitation. Then again, the administration that implemented this legislation did not demonstrate elite legal skills.

I hope it was not an ivy league grad who drafted it.
[> [> Subject: Re: Endowment Tax Bills, Best Venue for Ivy Madness


Author:
DeepBlue
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:16:47 12/12/25 Fri

If I were the Princeton board of trustees, I’d be thinking hard about what to do here, because it wouldn’t be ideal from their point of view to abolish tuition and then have the next administration repeal or modify the endowment tax such that abolishing tuition to avoid it would no longer be necessary. Saying “OK, that was fun, we’re going to start charging tuition again” wouldn’t be a great look…
[> [> [> Subject: Why Ivy League Alumni Donation Rates Are Plummeting


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:32:20 12/12/25 Fri

I've posted on this board here many times that I think Ivy League students pay too little in tuition. That's right, too little.

It's no secret that alumni donation rates are plummeting across all eight Ivy League schools. Even the two outliers to the upside, Princeton and Dartmouth, are not immune.

I've had conversations with administrators who, when pushed, will admit that all of the decline is from the younger classes. In other words, we old folks are still reaching into our wallets every year. But the graduates of the last decade or so do not.

It's not because young people don't make as much money as old people, which of course is true.

The comparison here is young graduates in 2025 comped against young grads in 2015 and 2005. Young folks comped against other folks back when the latter were also young. Young versus young.

I submit human nature is such that, when you get something for absolutely free, you value it less. That's true whether it's the little bottle of booze they give you in first class or your $400,000 Ivy League education.

When you get it for free, it's less valuable to you.

About a third of our current graduates are getting their Ivy educations for free. Another third are paying very very little. Well, it's no surprise to me that young graduates don't feel grateful for their four years on campus.

So I think abolishing tuition is a terrible idea, at Princeton and anywhere else.

Having said that, I would love to see the richest university in America pay zero endowment tax because of how the statute was written. What a great loophole.
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Eli1143770312
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:42:40 12/11/25 Thu

Back to the topic of the best venue for the Ivy tournament (after completing the cycle at Ithaca and Hanover): New York is the logical location. Barclays would be great if it is available. Joe Tsai is a loyal Yale alum so worth a discussion. I have no idea about the cost but even without a gate, it would be a trivial cost spread among the Ancient Eight. And in New York, you would draw a decent crowd and get media attention. Better to stick with the rotation among the campuses than going to Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and Springfield, Massachusetts.
[> [> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 21:08:27 12/11/25 Thu

If Joe Tsai even *OWNS* the Barclays Center (he might be a tenant) and he is willing to give it to us free and it is available during the heart of the NBA season and it has not been rented by the ACC or the Atlantic 10, then I think that the Barclays Center is in play.

But it must be absolutely free. I don't think folks here have a sense of how $220 million or $370 million blows a hole in university budgets. What's the old adage? "A quarter billion here, a quarter billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money."

Another old adage is, "The alumni only care about a winning football team, the faculty only cares about parking and the students only care about sex."

If we hold Ivy Madness at the Barclays Center, then all three of the alumni, faculty and students will care about parking. Driving to the Barclays is no picnic and, once you get there, you might as well just empty out your pockets. You're gonna get robbed. By parking lots.

Meanwhile, Stabler Arena has unlimited free parking and is 60 miles from NYC and 75 miles from Philly. For everybody north of Princeton, it's more convenient than Jadwin or the Palestra. If you want to make a weekend of it, hotels are cheap and plentiful. The alumni clubs could rent a conference room at the Bethlehem Marriott for a lot less than at the Brooklyn Marriott.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Willie Horton
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:45:14 01/31/26 Sat

College students have sex like they study — cramming at the last minute
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Local Tiger
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 19:58:17 12/11/25 Thu

Barclays is too big. The Atlantic-10 did not draw enough people to
bring the venue to life.
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Uptown
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:00:19 12/18/25 Thu

Has anybody here ever been to Springfield? Yuk.
At least there's a decent weed shop in short walking distance.
[> Subject: Yale Will Be Tuition-Free For Families Making $200,000 or Less


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:00:07 01/27/26 Tue

Well, surprise surprise. It was Yale who fired the first shot.

Next year, Yale will be tuition-free for students from families making $200,000 or less. The previous threshold was $150,000.

First of all, it is now a near-100% probability that Harvard and Princeton will follow. That's how decision-making is done in Cambridge, New Haven and central New Jersey.

Secondly, I'm not sure that we're not well past the point of diminishing returns. That is, were there any families making between $150-200,000 who previously were thinking, "We love the idea of a Yale education. But it costs too much. We're going to send Junior to UConn or Quinnipiac. Wait a minute, those schools already cost more than Yale after financial aid!"

I've already said this earlier in this thread: Something bad is happening across all eight Ivy League universities. Alumni donation rates are plummeting, even at Princeton and Dartmouth, which is saying something.

Making Ivy costs cheaper and cheaper might very well be harming the culture on our campuses.

Why just keep making it cheaper to attend Yale? Why not say, "You sign a promissory note for $15,000 per academic year, due ten years after graduation. That's a total of $60,000 due in 2040. When 2040 rolls around, if you went into a high-income profession like finance or consulting or technology, how about you pay that $60,000 back interest-free? If you went to Teach For America or worked for the Peace Corps, we'll tear up the promissory note."
[> [> Subject: Re: Yale Will Be Tuition-Free For Families Making $200,000 or Less


Author:
observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:02:02 01/27/26 Tue

But the league isn't rich enough to rent a neutral site for its basketball tournament... something doesn't quite add up...
[> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
Tiger’69
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:29:41 01/27/26 Tue

I am out of the country now, but I thought that I saw in a recent P.A.W. that Princeton is now tuition-free for families making up to $250,000. Makes sense. We started it all by eliminating the student loan and replacing it with outright grant in order that students would graduate without crushing debt. When I get home I’ll check that claim. That act contributed to my decision to greatly increase my AG.🐅🐅🐅
[> [> Subject: Re: Potential Ivy League Basketball Tournament Venue


Author:
joiseyfan
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:12:14 01/28/26 Wed

Harold Shapiro worked his entire term to make this all happen, and the elimination of student loans was announced just prior to the end of his presidency

https://paw.princeton.edu/article/twenty-years-later-princetons-visionary-financial-aid-program

The current financial aid approach was expanded last summer

https://paw.princeton.edu/article/princeton-expands-financial-aid-across-income-spectrum


[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.