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Subject: Re: NYU probably is a good fit for UAA


Author:
IvySportsJunkie
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Date Posted: 11:45:52 02/10/26 Tue
In reply to: An Observer 's message, "North Dakota State Going Big Time, and It's Expensive" on 10:20:09 02/09/26 Mon

In light of your comments, I relooked at NYU’s athletic conference.

While NYU has a massive study body in line with the size of the larger public universities, NYU appears to be a good fit for their D3 conference. NYU competes in the University Athletic Association (UAA). UAA is comprised of all elite academic universities in line with NYU. Each of the UAA universities have undergraduate enrollments over 6,000 and endowments of at least $2 billion. The only UAA conference exception is Brandeis, which has 3,600 undergraduate enrollment and $1 billion endowment.

Of course, enrollment and endowment are not the best indicators of athletic prowess. The New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) colleges have relatively small undergraduate enrollments, yet NESCAC is the dominant D3 athletic conference in the nation.

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Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: NYU probably is a good fit for UAA


Author:
Quaker62
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Date Posted: 19:30:08 02/11/26 Wed

The UAA is a great league. As mentioned earlier, the eight schools in the league are high quality institutions. A look at their rosters, from my experience at a CMU-Wash U game a couple of weeks ago, shows that they recruit nationwide. I’m not so sure that the recruiting footprint of the NESAC is comparable. The UAA schools Wash U, Chicago, Case Western, CMU, Rochester, NYU, Brandeis and Emory are sufficiently distant that that makes is a “fly to away games” league. Like most D III leagues, I’m sure they schedule some bus trips against local competition, but for the most part, for important games and in-season tournaments, air travel is the norm for the UAA. Just like the big time…something not list on recruits.
[> [> Subject: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 09:48:14 02/12/26 Thu

The UAA is a great league for those who like sports to be no more than extracurricular activities for enrolled students.

It sucks in bringing national attention and applications/enrollment to the member schools. It's a terrible institutional marketing device, relative to the SEC and B1G. It doesn't help build campus unity and school spirit (and commensurate alumni giving) in the same way, nor does it necessarily inspire campus neighbors to look at the school in a positive light.

The idea that college athletics only has value for the participants in the games themselves is antediluvean, and a clinging to 19th century model of college athletics is the kind of thinking that make Xerox and Kodak the wonderful brands they are today.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
SpuytenDuyvil76
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Date Posted: 05:44:10 02/13/26 Fri

observer - I agree, especially if you want a university the football team can be proud of!

The rest of the developed world does just fine (and increasingly maybe better) eschewing the support of semi-professional sports and gets on with the bigger job of providing higher education and scientific research.

The vast majority of students participating in sports, all sports, will not go on to any professional career in the sport, so clearly they are participating for themselves.

As it should be.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
observer
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Date Posted: 07:33:05 02/13/26 Fri

False premise.

Which is a better school, Stanford or NYU? Duke or Haverford? Vanderbilt or Bard?

The idea that strong athletics programs crowds out strong academic/research communities is patently false.

Michigan is a top school across many endeavors, drawing excellent students from all over the USA, including private schools in Ivy territory. As is UCLA. Without Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton, UCLA might still be a regional commuter school.

Data shows that many kids from top prep schools are eschewing smaller traditional liberal arts schools for bigger public and private schools the sun belt because of weather AND campus culture (including school spirit).

And the idea that the legacy schools in the Northeast have a hammerlock on academia, especially what qualifies as "academic" research these days, is also a bit of fart-sniffing.

One can aspire to be more than what they have been. And the ad hominem attacks about the school envying the football team is bullshit. The Ohio State President who made that remark knew damn well that his academic community NEEDED the Buckeyes to be good, so that admission rates and yields would go up.

Ask George Mason and Loyola Illinois if being D1 in men's basketball was worth admitting some students whose skill in basketball overshadowed their classroom study habits. They would make that trade every day until Sunday.

The Flutie effect is real.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 10:52:39 02/13/26 Fri

If you wanted a big-time atmosphere, why did you choose Columbia?
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
SpuytenDuyvil76
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Date Posted: 15:44:01 02/15/26 Sun

Responding to observer and sparman.

To observer: my point is that the U.S. model of supporting big time sports is unique. This anomaly exists nowhere else, so you don't need it to support higher education, as shown by the rest of the advanced world. That being said, I am a sucker for this very same system of a) building alumni support, and b) using sports as a prominent draw to keep alumni and prospective students' interest. I'm an unabashed Lion fan. I am sure to make donations directed to both sports and the college academic fund.
As stated before, I'm also concerned about the increasing prevalence of international recruited athletes in pursuit of championships. While it speaks to the high regard in which the U.S. system is held by these obviously talented individuals, it takes away from both the incredibly precious few admissions slots for U.S. kids at the Ivy level elite institutions, and also spots for local kids at state schools (i.e., Michigan, UCLA, Berkley, Wisconsin, Texas, etc.) one of whose main missions is the education of students from their states.

To sparman: not sure of the intent of the question, but when looking at schools way back when, I wasn't at all contemplating D1 athletics. That didn't enter into it. I was beguiled by the notion of the Core Curriculum and Humanities on offer, and Columbia College did not disappoint. Small classes, taught by full-time faculty, often full professors, world class acknowledged experts. For me, big time, indeed.
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Welcome to the 21st Century


Author:
sparman
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Date Posted: 16:29:36 02/15/26 Sun

was not directed to you. My default assumption is that people choose to attend ivies because they accept their "model" and want to be there. Apparently thay is not always accurate.


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