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Subject: Ivy Baseball: Say it ain’t so Author: Bengal [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 17:59:22 04/04/24 Thu I am not a fan of Penn teams, and even less of its admissions office. But having spent 3 years in West Philly, in attendance at FF (including watching the late, great McEnany of Cornell in lax) the Palestra (where I did root for them in that KState March Madness fiasco), and the now lamented Class of ‘23 Rink, I follow their sports a fair amount. Not to be overly melodramatic, but rather than feeling detached or slightly “partisan” about it, I felt almost like that kid who said to Joe Jackson during that World Series scandal, say it ain’t so,Joe, say it ain’t so. After following last season closely and enjoying exchanges with a great Penn fan I’ve never met, David Perry, who was so dedicated a Penn fan he attended Penn away baseball games, I actually feel a bit betrayed and I am not even a Penn fan. It’s taken me days to even post it, but it casts a pall over last season. https://www.thedp.com/article/2024/03/Penn-baseball-john-yurkow-suspension-ivy-league Credit the DP for ferreting this out. Details are sketchy as is the extent of the cheating. But what a letdown. Many years ago, When the NCAA gave P a major sanction for an alum who apparently, for a good deed reason and not for competitive reasons, paid a local girl’s tuition who happened to be on the tennis team, not realizing it was a violation, Tilghman squawked about it. I wrote here, what is she complaining about, it’s always been a serious violation to pay an athlete and it’s under strict liability, make sure your alums know it. I said P ought to forfeit any W in which her participation made the difference. I don’t think the coach knew. This was apparently game time shenanigans. What a letdown. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Rules are rules, but... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:52:48 04/05/24 Fri I played high school baseball, and I faced some pitchers who eventually got drafted. Sure-it was a long time ago. I agree that knowing what pitch is coming (fastball, curve, changeup, etc.) is a HUGE advantage. What the Astros did was utterly despicable. That said, I'm not really sure how much the specific velocity of past pitches matters much--at least not at the college level. Are batters going to change their approach at the plate that much if a guy is throwing 88 MPH rather than 90 MPH? Has the game changed that much since I picked up a bat? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Rules are rules, but... Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:16:48 04/05/24 Fri Focus on this: these are Ivy League coaches during the game. Maybe not the worst offense, although, with due respect to the DP, we don’t have IL report/statement on what exactly happened, but a written rule. A disappointment. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules are rules, but... Author: L et V [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:42:15 04/05/24 Fri Did the players understand what was going on? If so, that's really disappointing. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: An excellent ans pertinent question Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:50:32 04/05/24 Fri Not to prejudge, but it's hard to see how they wouldn't know if they are being told velocity (even relative or approximate) in advance of the pitch. Perhaps they didn't know the rules. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Still wondering how this helps... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:07:55 04/05/24 Fri Knowing that the pitcher throws (generally) 90 with his fastball and 76 with his changeup doesn't mean much if you don't know which pitch is coming next. And even without the exact MPH measurement, guys can see perfectly well in the dugout that a pitcher can really bring heat. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Rules are rules, but... Author: Lurker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:50:01 04/05/24 Fri Perhaps the advantage was the coach knowing exactly when the starting pitcher begins to lose 1 or 2 mph on his fastball and make a pitching change before he gets into trouble? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Penn Basketball Author: Recent Blue [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:50:36 04/19/24 Fri Having been off the board for a while, I guess this is my day to dump on Penn. I don't know the details on this, how serious it was, or how complicit the baseball coach was. The real say it ain't so is Bagnoli at Penn. He seems to have cheated for more than a few years. He had a wealthy alum in touch with recruits, which was a violation, for years. Offering jobs in the future as part of the recruiting process, not just summer jobs after enrolling or post graduation employment after enrolling which are not issues. His name was George Weiss. And before anyone calls bs on this, when I was at Yale, I was talking with a college mate on the football team I became friendly with. One time we were talking about how he was recruited in high school. He told me his Weiss story. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]