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Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 15:27:22 04/17/24 Wed In reply to: Ghost 's message, "Re: Incoming ..." on 15:10:38 04/17/24 Wed I'm not defending the status quo, far from it. But human nature is human nature. And history is history. Here's a fascinating factoid from the Grey Lady herself: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/15/magazine/dating-after-50.html?searchResultPosition=1 According to a 2018 study by two professors at the University of Michigan who analyzed 186,000 messages between heterosexual subscribers on an unnamed "public and large" online dating website, at what age do you think a man peaks in his attractiveness to women? Need to think about it for a second? This would include I presume the usual desired attributes of physical attractiveness but also professional accomplishment, maturity and economic means. The answer is 50. A man peaks in his attractiveness to women at age 50. After sifting through the same database of heterosexual subscribers on the dating website, the Michigan researchers found that women peak in their attractiveness at. . . . Wanna guess? 18. A female subscriber on Match or Tinder or whatever peaks in her attractiveness to male subscribers at 18, the earliest age at which she is legally allowed to join, and declines uninterrupted from there. Well, the 50-year-old man is the Big Ten and the SEC. The 18-year-old woman is football. The twenty-five players on the women's rugby teams and the fans who follow them are 50-year-old women, which the New York Times in this article calls "invisible." It's not fair. It's not right. But once again, the market has spoken. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: Ghost [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:50:11 04/17/24 Wed Who cares if it's not a spectator sport. How many years did we/do we endure empty gymnasiums (WBB) or empty stands at field hockey venues or fencing salles? Are we basing the continuance of these sports on revenue generation, fan attendance or the fact they bring a different, diverse group of students to campus? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:16:55 04/17/24 Wed I'm not disagreeing with you as much as I'm saying the market disagrees with you. In this case, the market is the conferences with the money and the leverage, that is, the Big Ten and the SEC. I'm certainly with you in the following way: Over the very very very long run, what determines the prestige of a university? In the short run, it might be bumped up by a winning football or basketball team, but only a little and not for long. In the longer run, a university's prestige is impacted by Nobel Prizes its faculty wins and Rhodes Scholarships its seniors win. And like it or not, fair or not, a university's prestige is impacted by its ranking in the US News Best Colleges list. That's why schools like Columbia and Penn have gamed the system so aggressively. But in the very very very long run, a university's prestige is determined most directly by the achievements and renown of its graduates. I hope that science advances so much that all of us could still be around in a century. Ivy League and other elite universities are doing so much social engineering in their student bodies right now that I am fascinated by how and how much their alumni achieve and accomplish over the next century. There might not be too much difference between them because certainly all of the Ivies are playing out of the exact same playbook. The same desire for diversity, the same political screen and so forth. But I wonder whether the alumni of, say, 2024 Ivies will contribute and achieve the way that the alumni of 1964 Ivies did. What about 2024 HYP and 1964 HYP? There are a lot of other variables in the mix, too, of course, but I want to see what happens in the long run to these whining, hyper-left-leaning students. I don't think it will be pretty. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: Ghost [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:38:51 04/17/24 Wed I can't disagree with you and I have a feeling that's mutual. The Ivies have NEVER related anything in Athletics to the market. Never invested (in a big way) in upgraded/new arenas for their most visible sport, basketball, had to twist/break some arms to get a four team tournament, play only 10 football games with a limited number of practices, on and on. But to attract a more diverse student body, YES, that's worth the investment in a coaching staff, uniforms, travel, practice gear, etc. Give me 28 full paying, academically qualified students who might normally go to Wesleyan, Tufts, Skidmore or Catholic U to play (insert sport here) and we'll have them play here. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:51:20 04/17/24 Wed One thing we agree on is that we're not disagreeing with each other. But I will point out that, unlike when I applied to college, the Ivies these days have no problem attracting and matriculating diverse student bodies along whatever dimension of diversity we want. With ample financial aid and very low admissions rates, the Ivies today truly are "assembling" their student bodies in one of the grandest social engineering experiments ever undertaken, maybe the most ambitious ever. Seriously, what historic social engineering experiment ever is more ambitious and broad in scope than what the Ivies and Ivy Plus universities are doing right now? The only question is whether one of those desired dimensions of diversity is female rugby players. I'm afraid that's the one where you and I don't see the world the same way. That's okay. Different strokes for different folks. I will say that I am confident the administrators at Ivy League universities, right or wrong, spend very little time thinking about how to improve our student bodies relative to Wesleyan or Tufts, as fine as those two universities are. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Incoming ... The Market is Not Interested in Equity or Fairness or Being Nice Author: David Perry (Not in a While) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:53:34 05/05/24 Sun Sorry, but the historian in me has to point out that the Ivies related a whole lot of things in athletics to the market. . .up until about 1930. :-) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]