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Subject: And Here's Exhibit A Author: Go Green [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 13:31:33 08/28/24 Wed In reply to: Go Green 's message, "Any particular reason why you're picking on the 1990s rather than the 1980s?" on 13:22:25 08/28/24 Wed https://exhibitions.library.columbia.edu/exhibits/show/roar-lion-roar/recent-days/the-streak [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: And Here's Exhibit A Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:51:24 08/28/24 Wed The Streak is not convincing evidence for the quality of Ivy League football, strong or weak. First, the Streak was mostly against other Ivy teams. 1980's Columbia football could have been on par with Vanderbilt constantly losing to the likes of Florida, Georgia and Alabama, or a bottom of the barrel Big Ten school getting pummeled week in and week out by Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State. Second, the bottom of any league is not a fair way to assess any conference. At the nadir of the Ivies in the Nineties, even the top teams were no good. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Fine here are Exhibits B through I Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:08:59 08/28/24 Wed https://nusports.com/sports/football/opponent-history/princeton-university/136 https://hawaiiathletics.com/sports/football/opponent-history/yale-university/309 https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/1986-10-04-navy.html https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/1989-09-30-army.html https://pennathletics.com/sports/football/schedule/1980 https://brownbears.com/sports/football/schedule/1988 And last but not least... https://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/02/sports/college-football-columbia-up-by-14-at-halftime-is-beaten-again.html [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:59:51 08/28/24 Wed I think that the best evidence you could provide is a few Ivy champions getting beaten pretty badly by Patriot League or other FCS teams, or getting smashed by bottom of the barrel Power Five programs. Do any of those qualify? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:32:59 08/28/24 Wed The 1980s were rock bottom. Separated from Division 1 Waning media coverage Institution of the AI No scholies Pre-Financial Aid Wars But the recent changes to college sports may trigger another down period. Separated further from Division 1 Scholarship and Union Lawsuits NIL confusion [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Fine here are Exhibits B through I Author: Drew2411 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:08:12 09/02/24 Mon I agree. 1980s were the low point for Ivy sports, especially football. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Happy to oblige! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:39:08 08/28/24 Wed 1980 No bad losses 1981 Dartmouth lost to Holy Cross 28-0. 1982 Penn lost to Lafayette 35-20. 1983 Penn lost to Delaware 40-7. 1983 Harvard lost to a mediocre UMass team 21-7. 1984 Penn lost to Army 43-7 1985 Penn lost to Army 41-3 1986 No losses at all 1987 Harvard lost to Holy Cross 41-6 1988 Cornell lost to a mediocre Lehigh team 27-14 1989 Princeton lost to Holy Cross 46-0 [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Happy to oblige! Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:55:36 08/28/24 Wed Excellent, rapid response. Can you cross-reference each of the Ivy losers with where they finished within the League? Today, we instinctively think of Harvard, Penn and Dartmouth as conference powers, but of course that is less true for the Eighties. I agree with "observer" (no "An") that we stand on the edge of the precipice of another seismic change in the competitiveness of the Ivies nationally. And yes, the likely direction is downward. It's a shame. I hope everybody enjoyed Princeton's Sweet Sixteen run and Yale's shocker over Auburn. We might be thinking wistfully about them for a while. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: I sure can! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:02:39 08/28/24 Wed They were all champs or co-champs. For completeness, 1980 Ivy Champ Yale did not have any bad losses, and 1986 Ivy champ Penn went undefeated. And admittedly, some co-champions in the 1980s did not have any bad losses either. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I sure can! Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:08:24 08/28/24 Wed I am disappointed you overlooked the opportunity to mention that the '89 Princeton team which got blown out by Holy Cross included a younger, thinner Robert Surace. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Ack! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:21:01 08/28/24 Wed You are correct! Indeed, to show you how much better the 1990s Ivy teams were, 1992 Ivy champ Dartmouth beat Holy Cross 48-0 and 1994 Ivy champ Penn beat them 59-8. I can only imagine what they would have done to that puny 1989 Princeton team. :) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]