Create a New Forum Admin Login Member Login Contribute to Voyager Search VoyForums Help Desk VoyForums Exchange VoyForums Directory/Categories VoyForums Homepage VoyForums News FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

Subject: Re: Athletic Environment — Where Are We? Author: observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 11:58:05 10/17/24 Thu In reply to: joiseyfan 's message, "Athletic Environment — Where Are We?" on 16:57:38 10/16/24 Wed The only other explanation for this article is to drum up support among alumni for a Harvard Collective. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Gosh, if only there was a rule that prevented us from dropping down in D-III in football... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:36:52 10/17/24 Thu ... unless we dropped down to D-III in all sports. I guess we're doomed? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Gosh, if only there was a rule that prevented us from dropping down in D-III in football... Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:45:27 10/17/24 Thu GG, this is your response every time any poster brings up a potential drop down to D-III. As I said above, I'm not convinced that D-III is necessarily our future, but I don't think that it makes sense to hang your rebuttal on the Dayton Rule when, just in the past three years, so many principles which we have taken for granted in higher education have been challenged and, in many cases, overturned. We now pay some college athletes $10 million a year. We now allow athletes to transfer colleges with almost limitiations. College athletic conferences now include 16 and 18 members. Stanford and Cal are in the ACC. We now are not allowed to explicitly consider race when admitting applicants (though of course there are workarounds). And you want to hang your hat on a half-century rule which literally nobody knows even exists besides you and the posters on this board? The world is changing, my man, and the Dayton Rule don't mean a thing no mo'. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Maybe you're right. But who wants to test that theory? Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:52:20 10/17/24 Thu If the Ivies attempted to drop down to D-III in football, but remain D-I in everything else, I can promise you that our competitors would take efforts to render us ineligible for D-I championship/playoff games. And they'd probably win. If the Dayton Rule gets repealed, then we will talk. Until then, we aren't going anywhere. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Maybe you're right. But who wants to test that theory? Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:20:19 10/17/24 Thu Who wants to test that theory?? Well, for starters, certain faculty members at Harvard (I think you can count on pretty much every single professor in any of the social sciences), probably more than a few Ivy admission officers and, not least, it sounds like Erin McDermott might want to test that theory. That's the significance of this article (and her inclusion therewith) in Harvard Magazine. Excuse me. I meant to type "**HARVARD** Magazine." In case you haven't been paying attention over the last seven decades, what the Harvard AD wants counts for more than what the Dartmouth AD wants. Do you think that, if Princeton football wins a wild, eventually-championship-determining game against Dartmouth on a controversial call, that the Ivy League office would issue a statement the following Sunday morning criticizing the refereeing in the overtime period? I have bad news for you. If Buddy Teevens or Sammy McCorkle makes that call to Robin Harris early Sunday morning, she ain't pickin' up. When Erin McDermott makes that call, a press release is issued before noon. That's the difference between what Harvard wants and what Dartmouth wants. We may or may not be headed for D-III, but the Dayton Rule ain't gonna have anything to do with it. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Maybe you're right. But who wants to test that theory? Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:28:41 10/17/24 Thu It's not football that will be the driver here, but basketball and to a lesser extent ice hockey. We all know that the Ivies have made their Sophie's Choice about what they want football to be. But the D1 Basketball tournament is where the monies come in. If the Ivies have to sacrifice their Tourney payout because of the "House" settlement, and they have no other real revenues (tickets, broadcasting, etc.) to lean on, then there really is no enticement to stay D1. The other thing is that it is probable that the super conferences will blow up the basketball tourney to the point where all 1-AA schools will be faced with a dilemma. Not to mention the poaching of basketball rosters - especially with the ability to redshirt for 'injury' - and gain playing time as a graduate student elsewhere after earning the Ivy undergrad degree. Note that this article talks more about Okpara and Mack than anyone playing football in Allston. And to An Observer's point above - the costs of maintaining 30-40+ teams on each campus makes no sense if the goal is to continue to compete at the highest level, rather than as a glorified extracurricular activity. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Maybe you're right. But who wants to test that theory? Author: WCJH [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:26:38 10/20/24 Sun At one time, the NCAA allowed schools to compete at different levels in different sports, but this is no longer permitted -- except for a handful of schools that were "grandfathered" in when the policy changed. Perhaps the most conspicuous example is Johns Hopkins, which competes at the D3 level in most sports, but plays men's and women's lacrosse at the D1 level. In fact, JHU lacrosse is not just D1, they play in the ūber-D1 Big Ten Conference. Unfortunately, this sort of D1/D3 split is no longer allowed, although it works for JHU and could potentially work for Ivies. So unless the NCAA revises its policies again, moving football to D3 would imply moving all other sports to D3 as well. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Gosh, if only there was a rule that prevented us from dropping down in D-III in football... Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:17:56 10/17/24 Thu Realistic or not, I don't think the D3 comment was imtended to be limited to one or two sports. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: If you're correct, then... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:45:59 10/17/24 Thu ....lots of luck to Harvard convincing the Ivy basketball, hockey, baseball, lacrosse, T&F, etc. communities to voluntarily drop down to D-III. Football is used to this type of talk. The other sports, not so much. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Ivies Have Already Been Relegated to I-AA (FCS) Author: Randy California [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:05:44 10/18/24 Fri Surely, no one wants to go lower. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]