VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345678910 ]
Subject: Re: Should the Ivy League lead the way and allow women to play on men's teams?


Author:
observer
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 00:46:51 02/26/25 Wed
In reply to: Che Kerouac 's message, "Should the Ivy League lead the way and allow women to play on men's teams?" on 11:13:01 02/23/25 Sun

I think way too many geriatrics here don't understand that women's basketball is played with a smaller ball - and, as such, there are few, if any women, at any level who could seriously compete in the men's game, using men's rules.

Because the basketball is smaller (and lighter), there is more margin for error in shooting a women's basketball. Not that there's anything wrong with that - but it's not apples to apples. The smaller ball makes sense given the relative size difference between men's and women's hands. A woman shooting a men's basketball would probably over time become more proficient, but it would be an inhibiting factor in being competitive from the get-go.

Women's soccer does use the same ball as men - but given the same size goal, and relatively smaller size and wingspan of the keeper(s), the available shooting target in women's soccer favors the attacker more than the men's game. A woman shooting at a 6-5 male goalkeeper with longer arms than a female keeper, would need to be that much more accurate (and powerful) than she would have to be against women. This comparison doesn't even take into account the speed/stamina/aerobic conditioning differences between the men's and women's games.

A commenter earlier did mention that a Brown woman already plays baseball for the Bears. Olivia Pichardo has been on the Brown roster since 2023. Her stat line over 2 varsity seasons so far: 2 Games Played, 1 At Bat, 0 Hits, 1 HBP, 1 Run Scored. https://brownbears.com/sports/baseball/roster/olivia-pichardo/21316

Even in the Ivy League, the male athletes are performing at significantly higher levels of physical stamina, power, speed and strength than the women. A walk-on male athlete at most Ivy League schools who played varsity high school ball but wasn't officially recruited would have a much better chance of success than the best woman player in the same sport at the same school.

It's actually pretty insulting to suggest (to both the men and women who compete in the Ivy League) that there should be opportunities for women to take roster spots away from men on men's teams. I am sure there was a .400 hitter in high school now enrolled at Brown who looks at Pichardo and wonders why that roster spot wasn't available to a walk-on.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> [> Subject: Didn't know about Pichardo


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 07:07:25 02/26/25 Wed


But assuming she's telling the truth in this interview, she looks like the real deal:

https://www.thedartmouth.com/article/2024/04/q-a-with-first-female-ncaa-division-i-baseball-player-olivia-pichardo

Among other things, she played competitive high school baseball, she had other college baseball offers (Brown had the best academics), she tried out for the Brown team and made it.

If some .400 male high school hitter thinks he was cut from a walk-on spot at Brown because of a less qualified Pichardo, he's probably got an uphill fight to prove that. This isn't a situation where some softball star decided to give baseball a try when she got to college...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Didn't know about Pichardo


Author:
MFK
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:27:25 02/26/25 Wed

Princeton has an incoming basketball recruit that plays on the baseball team and is apparently quite successful. High school is not college though.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: And for whatever its worth...


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:37:57 02/26/25 Wed


I went back and checked-- Brown's 2023 and 2024 baseball teams' rosters had below the maximum 34 players. So Pichardo didn't take a spot from anyone (unless Brown unilaterally opted for 30 players for whatever crazy reason).

The current squad is at the maximum 34 players. Anyone have any idea if Brown cut anyone?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: And for whatever its worth...


Author:
Bengal
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:23:38 02/26/25 Wed

And the basis for the statement there is a maximum limit on Ivy baseball rosters is what exactly? Incidentally, Columbia’s roster is about 40, and I don’t believe this is the first year it’s roster exceeded 34.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Them's the rules


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 05:18:15 02/27/25 Thu


I was told by a father whose son plays Ivy baseball that it's 34.

Apparently, the old rule was 35, it expanded to 40 to accommodate the COVID kids, and now it's down to 34.

https://www.matchcollegiate.org/2024/10/11/ncaa-changes-baseball-roster-sizes-and-scholarship-rules/

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Roster limits


Author:
Bengal
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:26:23 02/27/25 Thu

Having opted out of the settlement, I believe the Ivies are not subject to all of those NCAA roster limits, which extend well beyond baseball. Others may know more.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Hope you're right!!


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:06:41 02/27/25 Thu


Otherwise, Columbia will have to cut a good number of guys, and Cornell and Penn will have to cut a guy or two.

Everyone else looks like they have 34 or fewer on the roster.

And if you're right, then my original point still stands--Pichardo didn't take a spot from anyone.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Women's Hands and Men's Basketballs


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:07:08 02/27/25 Thu

I used to play in a regular pick-up game with men from my company. There was one woman who joined us.

She had definitely played varsity in high school and may have ridden the pine in college.

She didn't seem to have any problem with the larger men's ball though "observer" is absolutely correct that, over the entire distribution curve of female players, they will have more difficulty shooting and especially dribbling the larger, heavier ball.

But it's really the relative size of the bodies that presents the problems. Even though she was every bit the shooter that we (just weekend warriors) men were, she was a liability on defense and a non-factor rebounding.

We men actually went out of our way not to bang with her on the court because we worked with her and she was very attractive. (I think most of us harbored some hope with her.) A 150-pound woman is substantially weaker than a 150-pound man. Putting her on the same court as 200-pound men in an actual game with live fire is absolutely unfeasible.

She would have the kind of stat line that Olivia Pachado does.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Women's Hands and Men's Basketballs


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:37:21 02/27/25 Thu


Back when I was still coaching my older daughter in rec league some years ago (she was maybe in fourth grade), she took the first shot of the same and missed badly. Like nowhere close to the basket. That was unusual.

A few minutes later, the same thing happened. I thought "no way." And she wasn't the only one shooting poorly.

Sure enough, when the ball went out of bounds near me on the bench. I could see that it was a men's ball. I asked the refs to replace it with a women's ball and they obliged. After that, all players started shooting better.

As for baseball, my own little league when I was a kid had our own Amanda Whurlitzer. She could hit, too. Eventually she gave up baseball to play tennis. She ended up playing tennis for Duke and spent a few years on the pro circuit.

My gut is that if she had stuck with baseball, she would have held her own. But we will never know...

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Women's Hands and Men's Basketballs


Author:
An Observer
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:22:45 02/27/25 Thu

I assume that, when you refer to little league, you are referring to a pre-pubescent age cohort. I have no doubt that the best player or athlete in any pre-pubescent age cohort can be a girl.

When I coached coed kids' soccer, on average the boys were better simply because they were slightly bigger and probably slightly more aggressive. But the single best player by far was a girl. She was a danger to the goalies because, while the other kids were lucky if their shots actually left the ground on their way to the goal, her shots were line drives which exploded off her right foot.

When her shots reached the goalies, they were at chest-level and still heading upwards toward one of the corners. Every time she took a shot, there was a risk the goalie was headed off the field with a bloody nose, crying for his or her mother. I told my wife, "It's all fun and games until she kills somebody."

And of course, the girls hit puberty a couple years earlier, so in fifth or sixth grade, they will peak in terms of relative athleticism compared to boys.

The best athlete in my sixth grade class was Georgeanne Powell, a beautiful blonde girl. In our coed field day competitions, she would leave the boys in her dust. But once the boys hit puberty a couple years later, she would not have been competitive.

Fun facts: (1) Georgeanne gravitated to the sport where she maintained her competitive advantage, cheerleading. (2) Georgeanne was the first girl I ever kissed, in fifth grade. It was the first time for both of us and, on our first attempt, my right front tooth lightly touched her left front tooth. She reflexively pulled back in dismay, as if we had made a major error. We pressed on, like Kevin and Winnie on "Wonder Years." I can't remember what I had for dinner last night, but I can remember that.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Yep


Author:
Go Green
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:46:28 02/27/25 Thu


Little league as in elementary school level.

And I did not get anywhere with my star female athlete classmate, so you have me beat there. :)

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


Login ] Create Account Not required to post.
Post a public reply to this message | Go post a new public message
* HTML allowed in marked fields.
* Message subject (required):

Name (required):

  Expression (Optional mood/title along with your name) Examples: (happy, sad, The Joyful, etc.) help)

  E-mail address (optional):

* Type your message here:


Notice: Copies of your message may remain on this and other systems on internet. Please be respectful.

[ Contact Forum Admin ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.