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Subject: A Real Softball Author: joiseyfan [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 18:33:26 05/04/24 Sat Opting for the short version: HPY all finish the Ivy season 14-7. Hall wins her tenth for D to bring them to 13-7, have a final game (more Hall?) at home with Lions tomorrow for a four-way championship. Good luck with the tourney seeding. Nobody great this year, but all these teams had some fine play. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball tourney Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:54:47 05/04/24 Sat Seeding: 1. Princeton 2. Yale 3. Harvard 4. Dartmouth (regardless of tomorrow’s finale). How? Idunno. So playing in Princeton double elimination starting Thursday. Tigers get Hall in Game 1? Guess so. GG will be hyped.

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:43:59 05/04/24 Sat Watching some baseball and softball this afternoon. P gives up the lead to Cornell, trailing by a run late. Flyball to left, Cornell runner leaves early but ump doesn’t see it and the run is allowed. Disgusted, I turn it off. So I missed: Bottom of the 7th, two out, two on, 3-2 count. Sablone homers to left, getting a piece of the title and home field with the swing.

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball 2024 Softball Fulfills the 1995 Football Dream Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:52:00 05/05/24 Sun I see that today's Dartmouth-Columbia softball game has been cancelled. I don't know if it's due to weather or a giant flaming gasoline tanker on I-95. The loss of a game at the tail end of the regular season may not mean anything to 9-11 Columbia. But 13-7 Dartmouth is one win away from fulfilling Go Green's hopes and dreams for the 1995 football season: a four-way tie at the top of the regular season for a quad-championship. The list of non-champions would be as long as the list of titleists. HYP have finished their seasons at 14-7, Princeton winning in unlikely fashion as Bengal describes above. 13-7 Dartmouth is the #4 seed in the tournament either way, but are we going to give Jensin Hall and her teammates a quarter-share of the Ivy title as well? Or perhaps phrased more meaningfully, are we going to deny her a quarter-share of the regular season championship?

[> [> Subject: A Shame D-Col didn't go forward Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:44:19 05/05/24 Sun The four-way tie would have been cool! Obviously, you have to play the games. But Dartmouth with a healthy Hall has to like its chances. She missed two weeks mid-season and I'm pretty sure Dartmouth went 1-5 in those games--including 0-3 against Princeton. Should be fun to see how the D-Pr game goes with Hall in the circle... No idea if teams recognize regular season titles if they don't win the conference tournament? Is there an accepted practice for that? Is Princeton going to put the 2023-24 team up in the rafters for its regular season men's bball title?

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A Shame D-Col didn't go forward Author: Watkins [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:36:50 05/05/24 Sun Of course teams are entitled to recognize regular season titles. That’s why they’re called titles. The only issue here is whether Dartmouth will miss out on one because of rain on the last day of the season.

[> [> [> [> Subject: I'll say this much Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:13:09 05/06/24 Mon I live near a PL school. The banners in the gym do not recognize regular season titles if the team did not go onto win the conference tournament.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I'll say this much Author: Watkins [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:56:22 05/06/24 Mon That’s every school’s prerogative not to hang banners. For most of the seven-decade history of the Ivy League, the only basketball gym which hung any banners at all was The Palestra. Princeton famously or quirkily did not have any commemoration of its many championships while Carril was coaching because he didn’t want them. Now most Ivy facilities in most sports display the championships won by the host team, both regular season and tournament. Did you notice the 1968 and 2023 banners at Levien Gym during the 2024 basketball tournaments?

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I'll say this much Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:14:01 05/07/24 Tue Dartmouth's had the men's Ivy championship banners (1950s) and women's banners (1980s and early 1990s) when I enrolled (1989). No idea when we put them up--possibly when Leede was built? I never saw a game at Alumni Gym. But from what I remember, there's no obvious place to hang banners. So I'm more than willing to accept that we didn't have any banners prior to Leede.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: I'll say this much Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:08:15 05/07/24 Tue No banners at Alumni Gym. For a long time, not much heat in the dead of winter either — the (lack of) temperature was a big home-court advantage. A shame the Rudy LaRusso years weren’t recognized in some fashion.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Bud Grant would have been proud! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:04:26 05/07/24 Tue No one embodied the "we are going to embrace the cold!" mentality than the legendary Vikings coach.

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball 2024 Softball Fulfills the 1995 Football Dream Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:47:19 05/05/24 Sun Assume both men’s and women’s 2024 basketball titles are hanging in Jadwin already.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball 2024 Softball Fulfills the 1995 Football Dream Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 22:17:05 05/05/24 Sun and the D women deserve the same chance, naturally.

[> Subject: Tournament rescheduled Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:14:15 05/07/24 Tue Due to (of course) the continuing spring rains, the softball tournament in Princeton has been moved up to Wednesday. HY at 2:30 DPr at 5:00, presumably with Hall pitching and GG hyperventilating

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:46:19 05/08/24 Wed The official all-Ivy press release is out and, well, Dartmouth is out. As guessed earlier this week, 13-7 Dartmouth is officially relegated to fourth place, never having had a chance to beat Columbia to ascend to 14-7 with tri-champions HYP. GG's heroine Jensin Hall is Pitcher of the Year as a freshman and Harvard's Sophie Sun is both Rookie of the Year and Player of the Year, the first Ivy ROY/POY in the same year ever. So it looks like last year was a good recruiting class. Here's a bit of a surprise: Princeton's coach is Coach of the Year. Usually, when there is a tie at the top of the standings, the COY is awarded to the coach who was the biggest surprise or whose team had not been on top for the longest period of time. Princeton won or shared the title for the third straight season in 2024. Typically, COY would go to newcomer Yale or at least more recent newcomer Harvard. And how about Dartmouth's coach who was only prevented by rain on the last day of the season from joining the crowded top step of the podium? Lisa Van Ackeren must be liked by her peers. I know what GG will be doing today at 5:00.

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:14:19 05/08/24 Wed I'll be tracking the game. But from 5-6 I have to walk my dog and get my kids to basketball practice. Amazing that Hall was not a unanimous first-team All Ivy selection. I mean, WTF? Oh well.. I'm assuming that Dartmouth could have insisted that the last game against Columbia be played, but opted not to push it in favor of rest for the tournament. Win it, and nobody will remember the "lost" regular season title...

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:27:42 05/08/24 Wed For sure Dartmouth would have been on solid ground to insist that the 21st league game of their season be played if the two teams were in Manhattan. I think it's possible Dartmouth requested that the Sunday rain-out in Hanover be postponed until Monday but Columbia resisted, "Hey, we've got some protests to attend." I would have expected that the Pitcher of the Year be first team all-Ivy but unanimous of course requires a special mix of talent, results and political favor. You can't lose even a single opposing coach. Maybe her being a freshman cost her in that I think it's human nature to reward seniors who have played their last softball season ever which did not involve a keg behind the backstop. Are you still coaching your kids? My coaching career is over now, I'm afraid, but I'll always have the great memories. Best thing I've ever done. You mean to tell me you won't even be watching ESPN+ on your phone? How distracting is your dog??

[> [> [> [> Subject: Distracting enough Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:59:26 05/08/24 Wed She still has a nasty habit of wanting to go chase trucks and/or snarl at random passerbys. I keep telling her to knock it off, but to no avail. The game can wait... My coaching days are over--at least officially. Both girls playing travel basketball and soccer. The older one recently took up softball (!) and clearly enjoys that more than soccer (although basketball is her favorite). So she will likely drop the travel soccer and we will look into more softball opportunities...

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Distracting enough Controversy!! Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:13:11 05/08/24 Wed Harvard and Yale went to extra innings to make sure that you could get home in time to catch Ms Jensin Hall on ESPN+. Harvard down to its last out in the seventh before a two-run blast ties it up and sends them to extras, where Harvard put up about a hundred runs in the top of the ninth to win 100-4. Former Princeton coach Cindy Cohen on the call. She is a unrepentant homer on par with the Penn basketball announcers. But she has a point: she says that every pitch Jensin Hall throws is illegal. The pitcher's front foot must come down between the two vertical lines perpendicular to the pitching rubber. It's true; Hall's front foot lands to the left outside of the lines every time.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Not looking good... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:43:15 05/08/24 Wed Hall is wild today, walking in two runs. Going to need the offense to bail her out. And Princeton didn't waste any time, putting "2024" on the outfield wall of their Ivy League Championships. :)

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Will say this much... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:53:27 05/08/24 Wed Dartmouth's left fielder is making her case for "SportsCenter's Top 10" today.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not looking good... Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:47:52 05/08/24 Wed Final Tigers 4-0. Meghan Harrington dominates on 76-pitch shutout. Tomorrow winners’ bracket HP followed by losers’ elimination YD.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Princeton had our number today Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:19:13 05/08/24 Wed Neither Hall nor the offense brought their "A" games. Hope we play better against Yale.

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Not looking good... Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 21:43:56 05/08/24 Wed Tomorrow games HP at 10, DY at 12:30 trying to outrun rain. Chances of any games on Friday minimal.

[> Subject: ILT Day Two Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:20:55 05/09/24 Thu Tigers’ Shaw and Wright shut down Crimson on two hits, 3-1. Princeton now 14-3 at home; the #1 seed has been a huge advantage so far. Tigers to finals Saturday. DY starting now, winner takes on H, supposedly tomorrow.

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT Day Two Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:19:19 05/09/24 Thu Just so you can say a prayer for GG, Hall pitching again for Green, as of now ahead 4-0 in the top of the third.

[> [> [> Subject: Dartmouth survives by fingernails... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:39:14 05/09/24 Thu Was tracking the game. Hall looked like her normal self for six innings. And then the wheels came off. Singles, hit bats(wo)men, walks. The type of stuff that resulted in a few runs yesterday. Appears the game ended on a fly ball with the bases loaded and the runner being thrown out at third???? If so, the poor Yale player did not know that you should never, never, never, NEVER make the third out running to third base if its not absolutely mandatory to do so.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT Day Two Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:13:07 05/09/24 Thu Top of seventh. One run in, D up 4-2, runners on second and third, one out. Yale getting to Hall, as per GG. Fly to medium deep center giving CF time to circle, CF ignores run scoring on the SF, per the textbook, throws a strike to third to get the runner trying to advance from second. Game over 4-3. Never never never make the final out at third except on a force. Couldn't see the third base coach on video, but it makes no difference. Will be known as GG's law now.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Flattering, but Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:46:00 05/09/24 Thu Not trying for third with two outs is a pretty basic, time-honored strategy--at least in baseball. There are reasons why a runner on second is considered to be in "scoring position." Maybe taking the gamble is different in softball. But obviously, it backfired for Yale today.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Just watched the play Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:32:11 05/09/24 Thu That was a terrible decision by the Yale runner on second. The flyball wasn't hit that deep to centerfield and she was out by quite a bit. I, too, would be curious to know what (if anything) the third base coach was signaling to the runner.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Just watched the play Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:05:59 05/10/24 Fri Back in my Little League days, we had two relevant baserunning rules: (1) Don't make either the FIRST or the THIRD out at third base. (2) Don't end your season at third base.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Was watching a game last night... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:24:45 05/14/24 Tue Involving the same scenario (albeit in the middle innings). The third base coach was watching the outfielder and told the runner on third base "go!" as soon as the ball was caught. The coach was not paying attention to the runner on second (who, of course, did not attempt to advance given that the caught ball was the second out). I suspect that's the way things went down in the Yale-Dartmouth game. The Yale third base coach was likely focusing on the fly ball and the runner on third. When she saw that the runner on second was attempting to advance, she probably thought "NOOOO!!!!!" :)

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT Day Two Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:19:49 05/09/24 Thu D vs. H tomorrow in sudden death. Will Green start Hall again? (Nah, c'mon, man...)

[> [> [> Subject: Personally, I'd give her a rest Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:47:45 05/09/24 Thu Even if we beat Harvard tomorrow, we still will have to take two against Princeton later. Hall has got to be tired. And McCarroll is certainly decent.

[> Subject: Day 3 — Everybody listens to GG Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:33:36 05/10/24 Fri Somehow they’re playing in Princeton. Top of the 2nd, H2 D1. Jemsin Hall pitching for D, gave up a walk, single and double in the first, 23 pitches. Neither starter will be around at the end.

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: John Harvard [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:27:41 05/10/24 Fri Can't seem to get the game on ESPN+. Updates appreciated. Is it available somewhere?

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:32:13 05/10/24 Fri Your gals won another dramatic game, earn the right to play tomorrow for all the marbles.

[> [> [> Subject: Just wait till next year!!! Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:34:55 05/10/24 Fri Dartmouth couldn't get it done. But the future looks bright. Not only is Hall a freshman, but several other freshmen are regulars as well. Then again, as AO noted, the current freshmen class in softball looks extraordinary strong. We could be on the cusp of a golden age of Ivy Softball... ... unless of course, the transfer portal takes it all away.

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:12:19 05/10/24 Fri Trying hard to figure out why it’s OK to just let Jensin Hall twist in the wind, never mind three unearned Harvard runs, while three Harvard pitchers hang on for the win. Hard to imagine a happy bullpen. Harvard-Princeton tomorrow at noon.

[> [> [> Subject: Dartmouth Pitching Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:27:29 05/10/24 Fri Dartmouth has used literally two pitchers the entire season--Hall and McCarroll. There's another pitcher on the roster, but I can only assume she's injured. Why McCarroll didn't pitch today is the question I want answered. Was the coach really planning to ride Hall the entire tournament? In any event, I'm sure pitching depth will be a priority for Dartmouth recruiting. Hopefully more arms are on the way.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth Pitching Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:52:55 05/10/24 Fri Hall's brilliance, as explained to me by Cindy Cohen, the most egregious announcing homer in the Softball Homer Hall of Fame, is the movement she gets on her ball, side to side and up/down. I would think a pitcher like that could pitch an entire series, more so than a pitcher who throws heat. Re: Cohen, as I've said before about other ESPN+ announcers, I actually like listening to their homerism. Dave Faucher openly cheering for Dartmouth basketball, Cohen yelling "safe!" or "foul!" in real time before the umpire makes a signal. It's all good and just plain fun. The only broadcasting team I can't stand is the Penn basketball announcers. They're not just homers. They're whiners. For crying out loud, at some point in a forty-minute basketball game, a foul will be called on a Quaker. Deal with it.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Dartmouth Pitching Author: Ivy Patriot [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:00:19 05/10/24 Fri Good luck with recruiting another standout pitcher. If it's me, I want the ball and the Dartmouth coach apparently wants it in Hall's hands. (Understandable, although it didn't pay off this year.) A top recruit may not think there's enough innings in the season for two top pitchers.

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: John Harvard (H v P Game 1) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:50:32 05/11/24 Sat H over P 6-1 in the 6th, outhitting them 12-2. If H prevails, final game of what must be a double elimination format follows later today

[> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 16:59:20 05/11/24 Sat P 1 H 0 in the second and deciding game today. Tigers get the NCAA bid. Coach made some great decisions on pitching.

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:19:06 05/11/24 Sat Two (2 1/2?) masterful pitching performances today in Games 6 and 7 when the hurlers are normally exhausted. H's Nicolette Hunter four-hits P in the first. P's Cassidy Shaw and Brielle Wright give up four hits and no walks in the second, outdoing five-hitter by H's Anna Reed. Two fine teams end up splitting six games on the season. On to NCAAs for Tigers.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:39:47 05/11/24 Sat Hunter is a frosh with no fear in a must win game, away; threw 112 pitches today and held us to one run. Same deal with Shaw, I believe a frosh, who pitched part of an inning in today’s first game and then threw 6 shutout innings in the second. Well done. Meanwhile, the baseball team awaits their playoff with the opposite problem—a very thin pitching staff. Unless Kim or Sword are coming back. Possibly stitch together pitching to hang for one game with whoever we wind up playing. Beyond that I don’t even want to think about.

[> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: MFK [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:23:17 05/12/24 Sun Someone explain to me how, in the biggest game of the year, Harvard is the home team when Princeton is the #1 seed.

[> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: John Harvard (Double Elimination) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:05:20 05/12/24 Sun Apparently, teams are bracketed initially based upon seeding. In a single elimination tournament, the positioning in the bracket carries all the way to the championship game, meaning that the top seeded team is guaranteed home field advantage. Here's my understanding. In a double elimination tournament, things get impacted by performance. As long as the the top prevailing winners bracket team beats the prevailing loser's bracket team in the 'first' championship game, that top seed will always be the home team. But, if the loser's bracket champion beats the winner's bracket champion as happened Saturday morning when Harvard beat Princeton, that makes the loser's bracket champion the home team, which is why Harvard was the home team against Princeton in the final. I'm assuming that the entire tournament was played at Princeton because Princeton won the regular season (something basketball could learn from), but once Princeton lost to Harvard, it lost the top billing, but the tournament remained in Princeton. Anyone understand it differently?

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: MFK [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:24:34 05/13/24 Mon Thanks. Not sure that I agree that that's fair, but then again, what is.

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: A Real Softball Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:23:55 05/13/24 Mon John Harvard's logic sounds on target and I'm confident that some version of his train-of-thought is the official rationale. I'll just note that, while virtually all sports exhibit some degree of home field advantage, baseball and softball are two of the few where, besides all the intangible benefits of sleeping in your own bed, home crowd and its attendant influence on officiating et cetera, there is a tangible home field advantage baked right into the rules. Namely, the home team has the enormous advantage of being allowed to bat last. I guess the folks who designed the ground rules for a double elimination tournament decided that, once you get to a Game Seven winner take all context, the winner's bracket contestant has lost the same number of games as the loser's bracket contestant (one loss apiece) and it's time to balance out the home field advantage. Little known trivia: In both baseball and softball, the home team has the OPTION to bat first if desired. Of course no home team ever declines to bat second, although I can think of some obscure scenarios where that might make sense. I doubt that most managers even know that they have the CHOICE as the home team.

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: When Might Harvard as The Home Team Choose to Bat First? Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:49:18 05/13/24 Mon Just for fun, I've been trying to come up with the most likely situation of all the obscure scenarios in which the home team might want to bat in the top half of the inning. Interestingly, I think that Sunday's Harvard-Princeton series would actually have been a possibility. In my opinion, here's what it would take for a home team to want to bat first. Imagine that there had been a rain delay at any time on Sunday before the start of the second game. Now, it's very late in the afternoon. Because the NCAA tournament field would be chosen later that night, both Harvard and Princeton know that they will play and finish their deciding championship game, no matter how many innings it takes. They need a winner by Sunday night, period. Now imagine that both teams plan to send their best pitcher to the mound for the deciding game, which it seems they did, although I don't know either roster well enough to say for sure. Therefore, both coaches know that it will probably be a low-scoring game and it's not unlikely that 1-0 will win it, which of course is the actual final score which resulted. Well, if I think 1-0 will win the game, then batting second is less of an advantage than usual because it's very unlikely that I will come to bat in the bottom of the last inning knowing that I need three runs or four runs specifically. I don't know if the Princeton softball field has lights, but I heard my favorite softball announcer Cindy Cohen say that it's only a temporary field. So assume for the time being that Princeton didn't want to pay for lights on a field which they won't be using next year or thereafter. Tiger softball fans can confirm or refute this supposition. If all those circumstances were to come together like that, I could actually imagine Harvard head coach Jenny Rohn taking the unprecedented step of CHOOSING to bat in the top of each inning even though the Crimson are the designated home team. Why? Because as the sun sets later in the game, the lighting will be better in the top half of every inning compared to the bottom half. If I think a pitcher's duel is likely, I want my batters to get the better lighting in every inning. If we go to extras, the lighting is going to get very relevant and I want my women batting when it's as bright as possible.