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Subject: the single bias in this discussion is seen in folks who'd rather see harvard on the losing end.


Author:
valmas (stoic)
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Date Posted: 15:17:54 10/11/25 Sat
In reply to: Phil Leotardo 's message, "Re: Harvard 34 Cornell 10" on 01:02:58 10/11/25 Sat

there's far too much hyperbolic nonsense to respond to all at once on this thread. let's just try to understand that the so-called 'spotting official' is the game's umpire and he's NOT cheating or placing the ball at some indiscriminate location to his emotional liking. actually, the wing officials are out there to
define for the umpire where to place the ball, based on their determination of the maximal point of forward progress at the end of a given play.

now, what exactly is forward progress? it's the most forward point toward the opponent's goal line that the ball has reached when the runner's
momentum is stopped by an opponent. there's a lot to unpack about this definition, though it should be clear to even the most
uninitiated that those officials nearest the sidelines at the beginning of a play have forward progress responsibilities as their movements are basically parallel to the field's sidelines; thus they've got the chance to look directly at a play, rather than taking it in from in front of or behind the action.

so, if you're going to complain about the spotting of the ball, at
least make the attempt to figure out who to direct your complaint to. better still, admit that it's more than a bit unhinged to cite 'home cooking' and 'cheating' as realistic factors in ivy league
football contests.

keep in mind, too, that if ever you appear in a court proceeding as a defendant or plaintiff, you're certainly entitled to a fair outcome - though not necessarily a perfect one! similarly, these game officials work to give the kids a fair game and they generally succeed in doing just that.

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Replies:
[> [> [> Subject: Re: the single bias in this discussion is seen in folks who'd rather see harvard on the losing end.


Author:
Squeaker
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Date Posted: 15:26:08 10/11/25 Sat

I was not paying as close of attention to the play by play spotting of the ball as Phil seems to have been, but I can think of a couple curious spots that were in Harvard's favor. Most notably when the Harvard receiver caught the ball right on the sideline seemingly a full yard short of the first down line, only to be immediately driven backwards by Cornell defenders. Somehow, though, the first down was granted
[> [> [> [> Subject: 'seemingly' being the operative word of your conmentary.


Author:
valmas (stoic)
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Date Posted: 21:36:43 10/11/25 Sat

you write about the runner being immediately driven backwards when that just begs the question: what was the most forward point of the ball - the point of the BALL nearest the opponent's goal line -
in relation to the yard line and nearest sideline when the runner's momentum was stopped by an opponent or he stepped out of
bounds? notice, the rule doesn't
relate to a need to know where the runner's torso was when the play ended and so many of these long-
limbed, skill position players are so very good at extending the ball forward, a yard or more, before
their momentum is stopped and while they're still inbounds. not to mention that these types of plays can explode on the covering referee who needs to come up with several data points of information in an instant: catch/no catch; landing point inbounds/out of bounds; was momentum stopped; did the runner go out-of-bounds and where was the nose of the ball when the play ended?

and if there's any benefit of the doubt to be given, it typically goes to the offensive player doing the heavy lifting on the play: making the catch; establishing inbounds possession of the ball; absorbing contact and still managing to maintain ball control and forward momentum. as each team will go on offense at some point in the game with rules encouraging an equivalency in total number of team possessions, each team's offense stands to reap this same level of benefit; or to create a higher level of benefit for themselves as based on their efforts and presentation.

all this having now been stated, squeaker, is not to discount the worthiness of your assessments. perhaps your view should carry the day, but, again, the game's not perfect - not from the perspective of anyone associated with event. but i remain confident that the day the players come to play mistake-free football, the referees will be on the scene, calling the perfect game, too.
[> [> [> Subject: Re: the single bias in this discussion is seen in folks who'd rather see harvard on the losing end.


Author:
Phil Leotardo
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Date Posted: 19:27:42 10/11/25 Sat

Yeah, I know what forward progress is. Call it like I see it, one ref in particular giving Harvard generous spots all night.


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