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Date Posted: 18:25:49 08/17/04 Tue
Author: cat
Author Host/IP: 172.194.162.124
Subject: Re: Getting caught vs. Protest.
In reply to: mnaz 's message, "Getting caught vs. Protest." on 13:03:06 08/17/04 Tue

So, you don't think smoking pot is a legitimate example of civil disobedience?

Can you answer a question for me then? And this is completely sincere, because I do not smoke it (I drink, though) and I draw kind of a "blank" about the whole thing. Why do people smoke it? Is the high really worth the possibility of going to jail or getting a slap on your record if you get caught? Every single time I've asked this question of somebody who smokes it, I get a 'civil disobedience' type answer. I don't know if this is something they are saying this as rationalization, or if they really mean it (I assume they're sincere)or if the high from smoking pot is so incredibly awesome and wonderful and I just don't know. I smoked it in my early twenties, and it did nothing for me. Then, about eight or nine years ago I had a boyfriend who smoked it regularly and convinced me to give it another try. I did. And I kept trying, too, to please him. All it does is make me sleepy and "stoned". So, I am really dumb on this subject. Maybe you can't answer me over email, I don't know. :-)

As for your irritation with people (like me, prior posts) who disapprove of civil disobedience as a general rule, the point is well-taken. After all, if someone feels a law is unjust, and they want to protest, there aren't too many peaceful but effective means open to them. Civil disobedience is peaceful and generally effective. I still think it's a question of degrees, though.




>Well, Cat...
>
>Happening to "get caught" is not what I have in mind
>here.... more like intentionally, publicly getting
>caught, to draw attention to an issue.... like if a
>group marched on Wash. DC, smoking pot and carrying
>signs, and this group was then arrested on national TV
>and thrown in jail... civil disobedience as protest.
>
>My main beef here is the de facto
>establishment-skewed, default perception that the
>cause must be invalid automatically if its proponents
>resort to breaking rules. (one of the main points of
>the protest to start with).
>
>I also found it interesting that some people consider
>Thoreau's protest to be a fraud, since he accepted
>his release when someone else paid his tax. It seems
>to me that he gave up his freedom for awhile and
>perhaps risked his reputation to make a point... the
>point being to draw public attention to the injustice
>of the Mexican-American War. The point wasn't about
>how long he could stand to rot in prison, according to
>stubborn "pure principle".
>
>Anyway. Those are just my thoughts on it.
>
>
>>I don't think it's a question that can be answered
>>with a simple yes or no, even generally.
>>
>>Nonviolent civil disobedience was used to great effect
>>in India. You imply here that we may approve of civil
>>disobedience if we approve of the cause. Conversely,
>>if we don't approve of the cause, then we won't
>>approve of the disobedience. Maybe it's more a matter
>>of degrees. What's at stake? Is it a life-or-death
>>issue? Does the oppression of a whole people or group
>>of people hang in the balance?
>>
>>Maybe it isn't so much approval of the cause as
>>whether the cause weighs heavily or lightly in balance
>>with the disobedience.
>>
>>On the other hand -- you also have to ask who your
>>civil disobedience affects? Does it just affect you
>>and no one else?If you break the law, and go to jail,
>>and that's your whole point, aren't you just bringing
>>trouble down on your own head?
>>
>>What about buying and smoking pot? There you have an
>>example of millions and millions of people in an
>>almost constant state of civil disobedience and the
>>law hasn't changed and it isn't likely to. Pot
>>smoking-- as civil disobedience--therefore, isn't very
>>effective. If you get caught with the right amount in
>>hand, you go to jail but the law is still the law. No
>>change. A lot of risk for very little payback(not
>>counting the high, OC) ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Generally, does it do more to advance the cause, or
>to
>>>set it back? A couple of examples come to mind: the
>>>illegal gay marriages sought and granted in San
>>>Francisco recently, and Thoreau's stint behind bars
>>>for non-payment of taxes in protest of the
>>>Mexican-American war.
>>>
>>>But asking and answering this question is a little
>>>tricky.
>>>In the long-term, history judges whether these
>actions
>>>are effective. But as they occur, it seems their
>>>legitimacy and potential to effect change are judged
>>>strictly according to whether or not one believes in
>>>either the cause or perhaps the concept of civil
>>>disobedience to begin with.... The status quo tends
>to
>>>use its own rules to discredit any challenge to those
>>>same rules. Any thoughts on this?

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