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Date Posted: 14:45:04 02/15/05 Tue
Author: r - 28 Jan 2005
Subject: Re: The Ramakrishna Order and Yogananda
In reply to: 1 - 28 Jan 2005 's message, "Re: The Ramakrishna Order and Yogananda" on 14:44:02 02/15/05 Tue


Dear 1

If you read the ‘Holy mother’ carefully it is mentioned that worship of Mother started a few months after her arrival not many years later and Sri Ramakrishna told the Mother to live in a small room because it was closer to his own.

The Holy Mother is treated on par with Sri Ramakrishna in their organization . There are instances where Brahmananda would send people to her for initation instead of giving diksha himself. If I am not mistaken , one of them became a President of the Order in later years. There is a story of Sri Ramakrishna that his nephew , Hriday once behaved very rudely with Sarada Devi. Sri Ramakrishna told him ,“Look here. You may insult me, but don't hurt her feelings. If He who dwells in this [indicating himself] hisses, you may somehow get by; but if He who dwells in her [meaning Sarada] hisses, no one -- not even Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva -- will be able to protect you.” Soon after, Hriday lost his job in the Kali temple because of an indiscrete action and was forbidden to enter its compound.

To accuse Sri Ramakrishna for asking that question to his wife would be like making a judgment of the Paramahansa for the ‘dirty chiseler’ remark (provided he said it.)

Same logic also applies to Swami Prabhavananda for his ‘refusal’ to Vimla Thakkar. I would also try to look for the ‘Vedanta Society’ version. I would make an estimate of the Swami based on his books rather than this incident. Swami Prabhavananda books are quite inspiring for sadhaks of all lines. This also applies to Paramahansa Yogananda. When UG went to meet Ramana he found him reading comic books and Swami Shivananda of Rishikesh eating pickles. Should we judge these Gurus based on such observations.

Also you have quoted that a woman at the best can be a mother figure. What is so derogatory about it. Sri Anandamoyee Maa was a Guru in her own right. Even in Tiruvannamalai, a disciple of Ramana ,Lakshana Swami has appointed Saradaamma as his successor and she is considered to be fully realized. Also Daya Mataji is referred as 'Maa' and it is a mark of her self-realization.

Even in this P.Yogananda and Prabhavananda fracas one should objectively look for truth from both sides rather than lashing out because they have said something offensive. Even if they have a misunderstanding does not reduce their stature in any way. Let us stop looking at everything in black and white.

Regarding this ,‘Brahminical attitude.’ I think we have to understand that this was really a mix of politics and religion. A certain group of people, hungry for power , devised a set of rules which would perpetuate their power for ages. Rather than reducing it to one particular group this is really a petty human mind operating , instances of which we see even in modern times. Even today the Shankaracharya here behaves like a petty politician not a spiritual guru. This is something you see in all religions - how many female popes have you seen ?

In olden times many functions of politicians were actually carried out by religious leaders and they were major power centers. It was this power that they were trying to capture for themselves. I personally , don’t thin there is much of a difference between religious leaders and politicians. Caste system cannot be defended - it was a crime against humanity but it is an attitude which has to condemned to make sure that it does not get ‘perpetuated‘ in another form.

A friend of my settled in States came to India recently and I mentioned how Bush was just slaughtering and plundering Iraq for oil. My friend who is a GOP supporter accused me of having a ‘Brahminical’ attitude !!!It is commonsense that the only freedom that this neocons are talking of is the freedom for American companies to drill Iraqi oil but he was simply shooting the messenger when the message was bad. When I see people like Rumsfeld and Cheney , smirking on my television set , I wonder if one can accuse them of a ‘Brahminical attitude’ the way they are trying to perpetuate power for themselves.

You are talking of atrocities on Buddhists centuries back. Hindus actually look at Buddha as an incarnation of Lord Vishnu. What should we talk of next ? The crusades or the slavery issue in America

Sorry to digress into a political situation but closer home take a look at Yss. Somebody had posted on this board that many Indians here in India are not given higher kriyas by Yogoda because they fear that they might become gurus themselves. I have seen on ’ground zero’ and it is a fact. Now isn’t that a ‘Brahminical attitude’ ?

Someone even mentioned to me that in Ranchi , they have separate quarters for Americans and Indians. However , I am not sure if this is true. If there is anyone here from Yogoda , they can confirm or negate this information.

Caste is a thing which really should not matter in spiritual realm. There is a book called Manu which set up all this rules but there is also ‘Asthavakra Gita’ which is also from the same Hindu religion that talks against caste. Sri Ramana Maharshi was a Brahmin and one of his finest disciples , Sri Annamalai swami was from the lower caste community. On the other , Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj was from a lower caste community while his disciple ,Ramesh Balsekar is a Brahmin. I think their caste would have been the last thing on their mind. Sri Ramakrishna was a Brahmin but he also practiced the faith of Christianity and Islam and found all these paths equally valid.

This stigma of caste will be eventually eradicated but it will take time. Even in a country like Usa it took hundred years to introduce civil rights after the civil war. India is a underdeveloped country , deeply impoverished and largely illiterate. It is not an easy job to introduce social reforms and root out centuries old superstitions.

But it amazes me how people oversimplify situations and talk of ‘caste prejudice’ for something which is nothing but just petty human behavior.

This is exactly how the person has responded when he says ‘brahmin’ descendants of Lahiri Mahasay criticized Yogananada / Sri Yukteswar. He was referring to Sri Panchanon Bhattacharya Mahasay.

Jai Guru

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