Author:
Pahu
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Date Posted: 11:36:22 05/26/09 Tue
In reply to:
PGB
's message, "To Pahu 2" on 23:26:32 05/18/09 Mon
PGB: I’ll admit I actually read quite a bit of it but didn’t find it compelling because: (A) – it’s almost entirely butchered quotations taken out of context of what the author was actually trying to say.
Pahu: I have been sharing this information since 2000, and the “out-of-context” objection comes up quite often. I have replied by asking the skeptics to show how the quote changes the meaning of the context. So far, all have failed. Perhaps you will succeed.
PGB: The very fact that the authors have included Richard Dawkins (!), Stephen Jay Gould and Carl Sagan should attest to this. I can find you plenty of quotes where they’re saying the exact opposite and I’m sure just by googling you can too.
Pahu: It is true that most of the scientists quoted believe in evolution rather than creation, which makes their quotes all the more compelling, because they have found facts that disprove the myth.
PGB: (B) – All the messages point to some apparent mystery that’s not explained by current science, with the implication being that it proves the case for an almighty intelligent creator. For so many reasons this is a wrong assumption not least is that this is the very motivation that drives scientific discovery. Pointing out that science doesn’t know things does not put a hole in the argument…
Pahu: Granted, but most of the facts disprove evolution, which is the atheist’s main reason for not believing in Intelligent Design.
PGB: …and if it did there could be a number of unconsidered arguments that could account for the origin of the universe, we don’t have to revert to Yarweh, although he’s one possibility. This is the fallacy of the false dichotomy – there could be a lot more possibilities than our tiny human brains can imagine.
Pahu: It’s good to see you do believe Yahweh is one possibility. When we are dealing with facts in the framework of known physics, most of those proposed alternatives resemble science fiction. Skeptics are convinced that God cannot exist and are willing to accept any notion to avoid Him.
PGB: But to address the former statement “Does the truth depend on my ability to understand it?” – well if you’ve formed an opinion – ie that science disproves evolution then yes it most certainly does, especially since most of the scientists you’ve named believe their discoveries actually prove evolution.
Pahu: Are you saying that truth depends on my opinion? Isn’t truth truth regardless of our opinions? A few hundred years ago most people were of the opinion that the earth is flat. Did their opinion change the fact it is a globe?
PGB: And if the opinion of scientists means so much to you, then I have to tell you the vast, vast majority believe creationism to be a myth, and can see the actual proof of evolution. Does their opinions not carry as much weight?
Pahu: Are you sure of your vastness? Even if you are right, does truth depend of majority vote? Scientists are also humans who want to believe whatever makes them comfortable. They have accepted evolution, not because they or others have proved it to be true, but because they assume it is true. Many have taken a closer look and found it be by a myth. Michael Behe is one example. I can give others if you are interested.
PGB: My big question then to you Pahu is, what do you believe? My followup question is, why do you believe it?
I’m not interested in debunking or refuting your belief – I just want to get a clear picture of what and why.
Pahu: When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:
1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.
4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.
5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.
6. Nothing comes from nothing by any natural cause.
7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.
8. Life exists.
9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).
10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.
11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.
Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.
The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.
“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes” (From In the Beginning by Walt Brown, Ph.D. page 5). [http://www.creationscience.com/]
Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.
Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.
The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.
If you are interested in more detailed proof, read, “Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.
[From “Reincarnation in the Bible?” http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-12387-2]
P.S. I'm the author of the book.
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