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Subject: Not to hammer a point, but...


Author:
Rodney Reel
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Date Posted: 06:36:32 05/10/01 Thu

Check this story out. Pay special attention to the part about how he found the gun.
14-year-old boy denies he planned to kill teacher
May 8, 2001
Web posted at: 6:32 PM EDT (2232 GMT) CNN.


WEST PALM BEACH, Florida (CNN) -- A 14-year-old boy charged with murdering his language arts teacher testified Tuesday he had no plans to kill the man he called his favorite teacher.
Nathaniel Brazill showed little emotion on the stand during two hours of testimony. He described pulling out a handgun on the last day of classes last May when Lake Worth Community Middle School teacher Barry Grunow would not let him talk to two friends in private. Lake Worth is the city just south of West Palm Beach.
Brazill had returned to the campus after being sent home earlier in the day for getting in a water balloon fight.
Brazill, who was 13 at the time, said Grunow did not appear to be "taking him seriously" and so he cocked the gun to let him know it was real. He said Grunow told him to "get that out of my face."
"Immediately after that, that's when the gun went off," he said.
Brazill said he did not recall pulling the trigger and he believed the gun's safety was on. He said he remembers clutching the gun with two hands and trembling with tears in his eyes when he was pointing the gun at Grunow.
Why did he have tears, asked his attorney Robert Udell.
"You're standing there thinking about what's going on and that makes you sad," Brazill said.
"You realized what you're doing is ridiculous?"
"Yes," the boy responded.
He said he took off running after the gun fired and pointed the gun at another teacher who was moving toward him. "I told him, 'Don't bother me,'" Brazill said.
With teachers, students and at least two officers in pursuit, he ran toward a nearby park to call the police to turn himself in, he said. But before he did that, he saw an officer he knew from a recreation center, told him what he had done and turned himself in peacefully, Brazill said.
Why didn't he just stop after the gun went off?
"I was scared ... scared of what was going on," he said.
Brazill described Grunow, a father of two, as a "nice guy" and a "good teacher" who "made his class fun."
Grunow had given him an "F" on a progress report about a week before the shooting, but Brazill said he had no ill-will toward his favorite teacher and that he had completed the necessary work to pass the class.
"Are you a psycho?" Udell asked Brazill.
"No," Brazill said.
"Are you demented?"
"What does that mean?" Brazill asked.
"It means are you a cold-blooded killer?"
"No," Brazill said.
"Did you mean to harm Mr. Grunow?"
"No."
Brazill, wearing a dark sweater, collared shirt and dark tie, portrayed himself as an average student who made decent grades in school with an occasional "D," typically in science class. He said he was a boy who liked to "joke around with his friends" and "liked to make people laugh."
He said he hoped to enter law enforcement one day and said he once wrote the White House about his hopes of becoming a Secret Service agent protecting the president.
About a week before the shooting, he said, he found a gun and bullets inside a cookie tin in his grandfather's room. He was looking for a telephone at the time, he said, and thought he was going to get a cookie out of the tin. Instead he saw the gun.
Brazill said he thought, "Oh, wow, a gun." He said he then hid it in a bag with five bullets, hoping that his uncle would show him how to shoot it during a coming trip to South Carolina. Two days later, he said, he showed the gun to two friends.
On May 26, the day of the shooting, Brazill was suspended and sent home early because of a water balloon fight. He said was extremely bothered by the suspension and wanted his grandmother's and aunt's help to try to clear it up.
But, he said, he never asked them for their help because his grandmother's car was being worked on and he could not find his aunt. He went home and got the gun.
"Why'd you take the gun?" Udell asked.
"I was just carrying it. I didn't have any plan of using it," he said.
His testimony ended for the day before cross-examination.
Earlier in the day, the prosecution rested its case. Brazill was the first witness called by the defense.

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Replies:
[> Subject: Re: Not to hammer a point, but...


Author:
Anthony
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Date Posted: 07:32:37 05/10/01 Thu

"he found a gun and bullets inside a cookie tin in his grandfather's room"?!?!?

Great googly moogly. I can't believe it. You know, I REALLY don't want to be a teacher anymore. I really wanted to once, but forget about it. This is very sad. It just boggles the mind.

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[> Subject: Re: Not to hammer a point, but...


Author:
icky-icky
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Date Posted: 07:38:13 05/10/01 Thu

I understand what you are getting at Rodney, and it is a convincing point on the surface. However, I still cannot agree that banning guns is the answer. I mean, look at the subtle hints here...The kid says he liked the teacher and never had a problem with him, regardless of the F on the report card. Why then does he even point a gun at him? Why would you pull a gun on someone that you like, especially when all the guy did was tell you that you could not talk to friends. Sounds to me like the kid had other issues.

Furthermore, what I have a real problem with in your theory, and this is strictly not meant as a personal attack (just for the record), is that we again are taking responsibility away from the perpetrator. I mean, the kid finds a gun and thinks, hey, this would go great with my bookbag....The message we should be sending should not be get rid of guns, it really should not. Instead we should be looking at why some 14 year would even think of picking up that gun in the first place, let alone threaten and shoot a teacher that is merely trying to stop a class disruption.

We always insist in taking away responsibility for things. We have learned that our society has a problem with being able to handle certain things, but instead of working on the why's and how's we focus on the what....Don't try to esrtablish new ways of thinking, just take shit away.

This to me is a cop out, this to me is saying, you know what, this freedom thing is too much for me to handle, you had better take it away from me. Well, I can handle it. I am not scared, and I do not want every choice made for me by elected officials. Who of late seem to be acting on the social wails of soccer moms and "nanny-state" supporters.

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[> [> Subject: Re: Not to hammer a point, but...


Author:
Rodney Reel
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Date Posted: 13:53:22 05/10/01 Thu

It seems that we'll never see eye-to-eye on this, icky-icky. That's fine. At least I'm not a 14 year old who will shoot you for disagreeing with me. But anyway, I'm confused about how this kid is portrayed by the media. I've seen him described as a kid who gets Ds and Fs in school, and I've seen him called a popular honor roll student. I saw pictures of him, and I felt bad for him. I'm like, 'this kid is 14 for Christ's sake!' I mean, how can a kid that age be malicious? Then I hear about kids that are like 6 strangling each other or some whack-ass stuff like that, and I see the video of this kid ventilating his teacher. Some people argue that he shouldn't get life in prison because he's just a kid, and I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, is this kid bad or is he a product of society (which is such a psychological BS term these days it seems) that doesn't know any better and just thinks that guns are the answer. But I tell you what, if he doesn't get life in jail, would YOU want to be his teacher when he gets out? I sure as hell wouldn't. I used to want to teach kids, but not any more. They scare me.

But back to the argument, I'm sure this kid did have other issues. Me, in all of my layman's logic, think that he found the gun and thought, "wow, this is cool." And when he was faced with a problem, he associated the gun with a possible answer to his problem. He pulled a gun on a teacher that he liked because he felt that it would solve the problem. Despite all of these initiatives to stop kids from shooting each other and teachers, it still continues. Would this teacher be dead if we didn't have guns? Don't know. That kid sure might've found an unlicensed handgun lying around and shot him. But like I said before, I doubt that your average law-abiding joe would keep illegal guns in the house if they were banned. Again, just my own line of thinking. Maybe its just my underlying cynicism towards society causing me to think that we're incapable of teaching people their own responsibility. I'm not blaming the kid's action on television (I'm surprised that someone else hasn't brought this up because the kid said that he learned how to cock the slide on the gun by watching television.) or whatever kind of music he listened to, or anything else like that.

For all of my conservative sensibilities, I can't stand these Republican NRA assholes who get ignore the fact that kids are f-ing killing each other over Pokemon and other stuff. THAT, in my mind, are the people ignoring responsibility. They adhere to some notion that their precious piece-of-shit guns are so important to our American freedom that its just irrelevant if a few kids get killed. Its the parents' fault for not teaching them correctly. Yes, a lot of it comes down to parental responsibility, but I can be the best parent in the world and teach my kids that guns are never ever ever the answer to an argument, but where does that get me when someone else's kid shoots my child? "Sorry to hear that you're son was blasted away in kindergarden, Mr. Reel. But at least you were a good parent."

And this comes from a guy who is really into history and warfare and all that stuff. I've actually considered collecting weapons and stuff when I get older. But if giving up something like that would mean that there would be less kids getting killed, count me in.

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[> [> [> Subject: To RODNEY REEL:


Author:
icky-icky
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Date Posted: 06:39:42 06/08/01 Fri

Resurrecting a recurring discussion:

Not trying to pick a fight but did you hear about the guy in Japan that stabbed 29 kids and killed 8 after he forced his way into a grade school?

Now, not to hammer a point, but he proves that anyone with a deranged mind and a desire to commit homicidal acts can do so, with or with out a gun. I think that this shows that the sickness is in a society and not in the inanimate
object known as the gun.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: No need to type in all CAPS, I'm right here


Author:
Rodney Reel
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Date Posted: 06:52:08 06/08/01 Fri

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. I agree with you: the world is full of nutcases and that guy could have very well rolled into school and beat kids to death with a steel dildo instead of stabbing them or getting a gun and shooting them.

When was the last time a kid walking down the street got accidentially killed in a gang stabbing? Lots of drive-by knifings these days? So we say that people are just going kill kids anyway so we might as well just let them have their guns?

Again, as I've said before, guns serve no productive purpose in society.

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: To RODNEY REEL:


Author:
Rob Base
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Date Posted: 07:06:07 06/08/01 Fri

Three redeeming qualities of guns:

Easy To Operate
Simple To Conceal
Quick Results

They are also longer range weapons, making the attacts less personal.

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