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Date Posted: 16:34:17 09/01/07 Sat
Author: anyasbuttmonkey
Subject: Time to get some fresh material on the board... How about a weekly discussion thread?
In which we discuss the frak out of a single topic?
My suggestion for this week - The Resistance on New Caprica. Did they take the necessary steps to secure their freedom, or did they cross the line into terrorism?
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Well, you know what I think about it. ;) -- Esmerelda, 21:46:35 09/01/07 Sat [1]
Which is, in a nutshell, they crossed the line.
Both Anders and Seelix express the view that as they cant kill cylons, making them suffer through multiple deaths will have to do, and hopefully they'll give up and go away if they kill them often enough, basically if they create a climate of fear, the cylons will go away, that's basically the very definition of terrorism, to create terror. Which I personally find distasteful, but given it's an enemy that cant be killed, and they are actually combatants, if I squint I can see a vague justification for it.
What bothers me most though is the hiding of weapons in the temple and the suicide bombings. We (and by 'we' I mean International Law) consider using civilian buildings to hide weapons a war crime, its a form of using human sheilds, given the disregard they know the cylons have for human life, its also criminally stupid, to hide weapons in an area that's going to be packed with civilians, what, where they storing their porn and alcohol in the school so that didnt have room for them? Weapons should not be kept in areas with high civilian concentrations, such as places of worhsip, markets, schools, hospitals.
Then there's the sucide bombings, recruiting grieving people to go blow themselves up, to me, is just morally abhorent, you think it's necesarry for the war effort? Fine, do it your frakking self, dont go ask someone who just lost a relative to do it.
Finally, I ask myself, would Helo have let Cavil bleed to death to teach him a lesson, or hidden weapons in a temple, or asked someone to go on a sucide bombing? No, he darn well would not. :)
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WWHD? Interesting concept... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 13:22:29 09/02/07 Sun [1]
I feel you could definitely apply it to real life, not just freedom-fighting!
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There's a quote I love -- Esmerelda, 17:56:38 09/02/07 Sun [1]
From a Vertigo comics series called Fables, "The only honourable purpose of war is to destroy your enemies ability to make war, do less and you risk delivering yourself into his hands, do more and you entertain depravity."
Ultimately, I find causing personal suffering as a war tactic, Ive said distasteful, but I dont think that really covers it.
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The resistance on Caprica is one thing; New Caprica was a whole other issue... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 13:44:25 09/02/07 Sun [1]
The issue of the Cylons suffering through multiple deaths is... well, not an issue for me - they're the enemy, they wanted to wipe us out, and at the end of the day, they resurrect anyway, I think Anders (and Seelix) had a point there.
Weapons in the church... now that's more iffy, personally, but still not the final step over the line I think. Esmerelda's right, though, in that the Cylons have no regard for human life so it's a bit silly to think that anywhere's safe to hide weapons, because nowhere is!
Suicide bombings are the ultimate act of the desperate, and definitely what turned them from combatants into possible-terrorists; my issue with it is more Tigh using Duck's grief to further his cause, though. Again, I don't know how I would react in that situation and I definitely think I would fight with the Resistance, but I think the suicide bombings were a step too far. Because, at the end of the day, it's wasting human life to kill a bunch of Cylons that won't die (and a few human collaborators), and those bodies could've been used to fight elsewhere.
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I'm with Esmerelda on this one. -- sparkle, 14:31:23 09/02/07 Sun [1]
The point I find so fascinating in hinsight is that the leaders of the resistance were cylons themselves?!?! Do you think there was a subconscious button pushed to take out as many humans as possible, or did Anders etc. really belive they were doing the right thing? Then there is Tigh. They pretty much insisted that either he end his wife's life or they would. That's terrorizing. Ok, I'm on meds right now so that's all I got. I'll try more when I'm more coherent!!! Oh and excuse any spelling errors.
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I don't think those Cylons are there to "take out humans"... -- anyasbuttmonkey, 14:40:10 09/02/07 Sun [1]
... but I don't think they'd decided until after the fact to make them Cylons, so we'll probably get a backhanded explanation for their actions as part of the Resistance as part of their own, subconcious "plans" regarding humanity.
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Re: Time to get some fresh material on the board... How about a weekly discussion thread? -- Chani, 19:06:22 09/02/07 Sun [1]
Of course it's terrorism and I personally loved that the writers went that road and that Saul Tigh was the one deciding the suicide bombings! It was daring.
BSG showed that people who are under the occupation of a much stronger enemy, who don't really have any hope left (or so they feel)but have only hatred, can become just that desperate that they would choose terrorism to fight. It isn't pretty, it isn't necessarily efficient and it is definitely not moral but a war doesn't bring out the best off mankind.
I'm glad that Helo was on the Glactica in the meantime so he could keep his innocence and nobility...and make the right decision later in episode 7.
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Something I wonder is -- Esmerelda, 19:39:54 09/02/07 Sun [1]
How far would it have gone if the Galactica didnt come back? Would they have started suicide bombings in the market when cyclon patrols went by? Would Doc Cottle have been shot as a collaborator cause he treated the cylon models that were injured?
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We'll never know -- Chani, 21:29:21 09/03/07 Mon [1]
but everything is possible.
Even the Cylons' crimes were used to mirror the humans' sins. They are the cildren of men after all.
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They went too far -- Rmartin, 00:01:05 09/03/07 Mon [1]
Why did the cylons want a human prison camp to begin with? Orginally, their goal was to wipe out all humans. Why the change? Remorse? Doubtful. Why not finish off the human race when you have the chance?
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I think that was the internal battle within the cylons. -- sparkle, 00:50:53 09/03/07 Mon [1]
Some models had hope for humanity in some form or another. not really sure though.
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becasue the show had been comissioned for another series -- Esmerelda, 11:01:07 09/03/07 Mon [1]
That's why they didnt just kill everyone. :)
I thought it was cause Caprica and Boomer had went on a 'give peace a chance' campaign, and for whatever reason, maybe they were afraid of Caprica and Boomer's influence and didnt want to risk a schism, they went along with it, half heartedly.
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