Re: a message for you -- The PM Refugees' Forum

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Date Posted: 19:21:04 09/02/10 Thu
Author: grasshopper
Subject: Re: a message for you
In reply to: Michael 's message, "Re: a message for you" on 13:42:09 05/07/09 Thu

Fascinating.

>Im familiar with that book, and others by the same
>author. I would disagree with the idea that it is not
>possible to become permanently
>enlightened/realised...and im suprised if he can quote
>Buddhist scripture, since surely the Buddha was THE
>example that it is possible to become permanently
>realised.
>
>From what my Realised teacher says.
>
>>Well, you do make a good point Michael. In theory, I
>>should hold on to none of these notions and maybe
>>you're right about that.
>>
>>But it's not a contradiction, and here's why:
>>
>>My epiphany was short lived - that's true; but
>>nevertheless, for a short period I was in a state of
>>enlightenment (to what degree I cannot say with any
>>certainty) - but I had absolutely no desire, and I
>>mean that on every possible level, and I was very
>>much in a nondual state of mind.
>>
>>I simply didn't want anything, nor did I care about
>>anything, I was neither happy nor sad - the best
>>description is the word "peace" - but I was also not
>>oblivious to everything either.
>>
>>But it didn't last. In fact, months after my epiphany
>>I read "After the Ecstasy, the Laundry" and I learned
>>that my experience was typical of many Zen monks,
>>nuns, etc. According to the book the state of
>>enlightenment simply doesn't last.
>>
>>In fact the author contends that no one can enter the
>>state of enlightenment for good - but will drift out
>>of the state after a period of time and he uses
>>Buddhist scripture to prove his point (and also many
>>experiences of modern day Zen masters). And even
>>though my experience may seem to validate his argument
>>- I still disagree him on that point. I do think that
>>some may have entered the state of enlightenment
>>permanently ( but I could wrong.)
>>
>>But to say evil doesn't exist would be a lie on my
>>part - I'd merely be parroting the enlightened
>>teachers. While I now know that it is true on a deeper
>>level and I did indeed experience the state they talk
>>about, I am no longer in that state. I am back to what
>>I was before. That state is something you cannot
>>pretend to be in. When you reach it - you change on a
>>level that goes beyond your own ability. I also
>>changed physically - losing 25lbs in only 3 weeks with
>>no effort and I had other physical changes as well.
>>
>>The idea that good and evil do not exist is only true
>>when one is enlightened. Otherwise the idea is merely
>>philosophical. If someone is about to viciously harm
>>another right in front of me, I cannot sit back and
>>say that it's not evil and that I don't care because
>>"good and evil" don't exist - that I am "above it
>all".
>>
>>I am simply no longer in that state of mind anymore
>>and I won't pretend to be. But I do have an absolute
>>knowing that the enlightened teachers of the past
>>speak the truth about duality and yet, I also can
>>recognize "evil" (as well as "good") when I see it.
>>
>>So here I am, caught between two worlds - which may
>>seem contradictory to you, but it's not to me.
>>

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