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Date Posted: 11/16/15 10:48:03pm Mon
Author: 'gate80
Subject: Here's a dozen
In reply to: Gate Raider 's message, "Re: One of most exciting games I have seen in a long time" on 11/16/15 5:30:31pm Mon

> And, for
>gate80, just what quality FCS teams might you suggest
>that Colgate play.

James Madison - nearly always highly ranked, 20,000 a game, beautiful setting in the Shenandoah, not any harder to get to than Georgetown or Navy (straight shot down I-81)

William & Mary - historic town and setting, top-10 team, academic equal

Penn - good team, prestige, historic venue, Philly metro alums

Harvard - ditto, Boston metro alums

Montana - nearly 24,000/game (I can count on one hand the number of Colgate games in the last 30 years where that many attended), perennial playoff participant, great experience for the team

Montana State - if Montana won't do it, program nearly as good which draws 17,000/game

ND State - cream of FCS recently, 18-19,000/game, domed stadium

Villanova - usually strong program, Philly metro alums

Delaware - 15-16,000/game; game last year a good one

Coastal Carolina - great road trip for team and fans, we won there before, now top FCS program

E Wash - perentially strong program, 10,000/game

Citadel - ranked, 10,000/game, Charleston great road trip, been there before

Any of these schools we should be happy to schedule away games with.

>And, do you really think having 8
>or 9 away games a year would really fit with Colgate's
>academic demands? Colgate doesn't have any easy time
>with the ivies.

So, Colgate's academic demands and AI mean we can't have a couple more away games a year, yet we can no longer compete with the Ivies? Isn't there a contradiction in there somewhere? Dunlap and Biddle won 75-80% of games with Ivies. We are over .500 in Ivy games in our history (which include years where Ivies were the strongest teams nationally, as were we for a while). Yet now entering the scholarship era we question whether we can compete with them?

>I guess you would prefer to see them
>lose 8 games a year.

In the Dunlap era we usually played 3 home games and sometimes 4. Only one year did we lose 8 games. There were 3 years were we had 3 home games and WON 8 games.

>The 80's have past and you
>should stop dwelling in the past.

Are the 1980s really something we can no longer aspire to? Winning a large majority of PL games? (Didn't we this year?) A large majority of Ivy games? (80% in the Biddle era) Be a national contender in FCS (like in 2003?) Schedule stretch games like Army and Syracuse and play respectably? (Don't we have these teams on the schedule the next few years.)

Gate Raider you are my friend. I'd love more games if we could get 5,000 actual people in the stands. I could literally count the number of people in the Dunlap stands last week if I froze the picture, for a freaking championship game! There are more people in the first few rows at some of the schools mentioned above than there were in the Dunlap stands last week! Yes it's great we got Furman and Richmond for home and homes, but if attendance is like last week they won't continue. Now beat a James Madison or FBS team, get highly ranked, be a playoff contender, and then there's a chance you may see a good crowd at Kerr.

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Replies:

[> [> [> Re: Here's a dozen -- Critic, 11/17/15 10:08:01am Tue

>> And, for
>>gate80, just what quality FCS teams might you suggest
>>that Colgate play.
>
>James Madison - nearly always highly ranked, 20,000 a
>game, beautiful setting in the Shenandoah, not any
>harder to get to than Georgetown or Navy (straight
>shot down I-81)
>
>William & Mary - historic town and setting, top-10
>team, academic equal
>
>Penn - good team, prestige, historic venue, Philly
>metro alums
>
>Harvard - ditto, Boston metro alums
>
>Montana - nearly 24,000/game (I can count on one hand
>the number of Colgate games in the last 30 years where
>that many attended), perennial playoff participant,
>great experience for the team
>
>Montana State - if Montana won't do it, program nearly
>as good which draws 17,000/game
>
>ND State - cream of FCS recently, 18-19,000/game,
>domed stadium
>
>Villanova - usually strong program, Philly metro alums
>
>Delaware - 15-16,000/game; game last year a good one
>
>Coastal Carolina - great road trip for team and fans,
>we won there before, now top FCS program
>
>E Wash - perentially strong program, 10,000/game
>
>Citadel - ranked, 10,000/game, Charleston great road
>trip, been there before
>
>Any of these schools we should be happy to schedule
>away games with.
>
>>And, do you really think having 8
>>or 9 away games a year would really fit with Colgate's
>>academic demands? Colgate doesn't have any easy time
>>with the ivies.
>
>So, Colgate's academic demands and AI mean we can't
>have a couple more away games a year, yet we can no
>longer compete with the Ivies? Isn't there a
>contradiction in there somewhere? Dunlap and Biddle
>won 75-80% of games with Ivies. We are over .500 in
>Ivy games in our history (which include years where
>Ivies were the strongest teams nationally, as were we
>for a while). Yet now entering the scholarship era we
>question whether we can compete with them?
>
>>I guess you would prefer to see them
>>lose 8 games a year.
>
>In the Dunlap era we usually played 3 home games and
>sometimes 4. Only one year did we lose 8 games. There
>were 3 years were we had 3 home games and WON 8 games.
>
>>The 80's have past and you
>>should stop dwelling in the past.
>
>Are the 1980s really something we can no longer aspire
>to? Winning a large majority of PL games? (Didn't we
>this year?) A large majority of Ivy games? (80% in the
>Biddle era) Be a national contender in FCS (like in
>2003?) Schedule stretch games like Army and Syracuse
>and play respectably? (Don't we have these teams on
>the schedule the next few years.)
>
>Gate Raider you are my friend. I'd love more games if
>we could get 5,000 actual people in the stands. I
>could literally count the number of people in the
>Dunlap stands last week if I froze the picture, for a
>freaking championship game! There are more people in
>the first few rows at some of the schools mentioned
>above than there were in the Dunlap stands last week!
>Yes it's great we got Furman and Richmond for home and
>homes, but if attendance is like last week they won't
>continue. Now beat a James Madison or FBS team, get
>highly ranked, be a playoff contender, and then
>there's a chance you may see a good crowd at Kerr.

I still don't understand why our attendance is not better. Where are football fans on a Saturday? Utica College? SUNY Moville? SU? Heck, we win more than SU does. If we could get just a few thousand of the perennially disgruntled SU fans into our stands...........


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Re: Here's a dozen -- pigskin, 11/17/15 10:13:20am Tue

>> And, for
>>gate80, just what quality FCS teams might you suggest
>>that Colgate play.
>
>James Madison - nearly always highly ranked, 20,000 a
>game, beautiful setting in the Shenandoah, not any
>harder to get to than Georgetown or Navy (straight
>shot down I-81)
>
>William & Mary - historic town and setting, top-10
>team, academic equal
>
>Penn - good team, prestige, historic venue, Philly
>metro alums
>
>Harvard - ditto, Boston metro alums
>
>Montana - nearly 24,000/game (I can count on one hand
>the number of Colgate games in the last 30 years where
>that many attended), perennial playoff participant,
>great experience for the team
>
>Montana State - if Montana won't do it, program nearly
>as good which draws 17,000/game
>
>ND State - cream of FCS recently, 18-19,000/game,
>domed stadium
>
>Villanova - usually strong program, Philly metro alums
>
>Delaware - 15-16,000/game; game last year a good one
>
>Coastal Carolina - great road trip for team and fans,
>we won there before, now top FCS program
>
>E Wash - perentially strong program, 10,000/game
>
>Citadel - ranked, 10,000/game, Charleston great road
>trip, been there before
>
>Any of these schools we should be happy to schedule
>away games with.
>
>>And, do you really think having 8
>>or 9 away games a year would really fit with Colgate's
>>academic demands? Colgate doesn't have any easy time
>>with the ivies.
>
>So, Colgate's academic demands and AI mean we can't
>have a couple more away games a year, yet we can no
>longer compete with the Ivies? Isn't there a
>contradiction in there somewhere? Dunlap and Biddle
>won 75-80% of games with Ivies. We are over .500 in
>Ivy games in our history (which include years where
>Ivies were the strongest teams nationally, as were we
>for a while). Yet now entering the scholarship era we
>question whether we can compete with them?
>
>>I guess you would prefer to see them
>>lose 8 games a year.
>
>In the Dunlap era we usually played 3 home games and
>sometimes 4. Only one year did we lose 8 games. There
>were 3 years were we had 3 home games and WON 8 games.
>
>>The 80's have past and you
>>should stop dwelling in the past.
>
>Are the 1980s really something we can no longer aspire
>to? Winning a large majority of PL games? (Didn't we
>this year?) A large majority of Ivy games? (80% in the
>Biddle era) Be a national contender in FCS (like in
>2003?) Schedule stretch games like Army and Syracuse
>and play respectably? (Don't we have these teams on
>the schedule the next few years.)
>
>Gate Raider you are my friend. I'd love more games if
>we could get 5,000 actual people in the stands. I
>could literally count the number of people in the
>Dunlap stands last week if I froze the picture, for a
>freaking championship game! There are more people in
>the first few rows at some of the schools mentioned
>above than there were in the Dunlap stands last week!
>Yes it's great we got Furman and Richmond for home and
>homes, but if attendance is like last week they won't
>continue. Now beat a James Madison or FBS team, get
>highly ranked, be a playoff contender, and then
>there's a chance you may see a good crowd at Kerr.

How much promotion for our home games is done in the Hamilton and other areas close to 'Gate? I have not seen any place where the games are talked up to the locals or kids in the schools. We do it for hockey. We have Friday night games where local kids are either admitted free or at a lower ticket price. Why can't football borrow a page from hockey - and other teams, such as major league baseball - and promote the games in all the media and possibly make discount ticket coupons available in the newspapers and local Pennysavers of Madison county to boost attendance and bring in people who might normally ignore Gate sports. Even though we might not make a fortune, we are putting fannies in the seats and selling stuff at the concession stands. On a beautiful fall day in Sept-Oct there is no better place to be than at a college football game. We have to sell that to the community more than we have been (if any).


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> They Don't Care -- Culture..., 11/17/15 1:26:49pm Tue

Locals:
Before Dave Roach, stacks of comp football tickets were available at local businesses. The new model is locals pay. The product on TV is free and much better than mid-level (at best) FCS play. The locals paying are getting older every year, and we are now old enough where most of us are not bringing children (as they are out of the house and out of the area). Another generation from now and few will be attending at all.

Students:
Colgate is, painting with a broad brush, enrolling very different students than in the past. Most care very little (if at all) about college athletics (except for the athletes, of course).

The Colgate Hello is a rare bird on campus and in the village, and will be gone soon. School spirit is centered upon academic reputation (and what the degree buys in terms of earning power) along with the social/party scene. It is a *rare* student who attends a game and stays the whole time. For the student sports fans who are left, the ability to multi-screen / channel switch, etc., in the comfort of a climate controlled space with access to "refreshments" without campo intrusion... It is a STRONG sign that they did not show up for the Lehigh game.

The real problem isn't the short-term. It is that these graduates are the future of Colgate, and they do not give a crap about athletics.

When you add concussions, the push to need blind, and $$$$ into the mix, the question isn't whether Colgate will disband football, but when. Longer than 10 years, for sure. But fewer than 50.


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