Re: new world church secretary -- Mamusz' Restoration Forum

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Date Posted: 08:23:37 11/15/12 Thu
Author: -
Subject: Re: new world church secretary
In reply to: George 's message, "Re: new world church secretary" on 20:24:42 11/14/12 Wed

>>>>>>but then again, your assertions are just that.
>>your
>>>>>>assertions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>john
>>>>>
>>>>>John, her assertions are only her assertions
>because
>>>>>there is not the least concept of truth in the
>>>>>Community of Christ. In the Community of Christ,
>the
>>>>>"truth" is whatever the people who matter believe
>is
>>>>>necessary to execute their agenda. Also, those who
>>do
>>>>>not believe what is necessary to execute this
>agenda
>>>>>by definition do not matter.
>>>>>
>>>>>George
>>>>>
>>>>What I should do is, whenever I post the url for
>>>>something the c-not-of-c said or did, I should put
>>>>under it, "true?" or "false?"
>>>>
>>>> >>>>href="http://www.cofchrist.org/OnlineResources/issue
>s
>>/
>>>1
>>>>982homosexuality.asp">http://www.cofchrist.org/Onlin
>e
>>R
>>>e
>>>>sources/issues/1982homosexuality.asp
>>>>
>>>>In the critical matter of ordination, the church
>>>>should not admit a practicing homosexual to the
>>>>priesthood. It cannot sanction homosexual acts as
>>>>morally acceptable behavior any more than it can
>>>>endorse heterosexual promiscuity. If a member of
>>>>the priesthood admits to, or is found to be engaged
>>in
>>>>homosexual behavior, the administrative officer
>>having
>>>>jurisdiction should institute procedures for
>>silencing
>>>>according to church law.
>>>>
>>>>This was the stand in 1982. True? False?
>>>>
>>>> >>>>href="http://www.cofchrist.org/usaconf/FAQ.asp">http
>:
>>/
>>>/
>>>>www.cofchrist.org/usaconf/FAQ.asp
>>>>
>>>>USA National Conference
>>>>Frequently Asked Questions
>>>>
>>>>4. Why are we talking about same-gender marriages
>and
>>>>ordaining people in same-gender relationships?
>>Doesn�t
>>>>the church already have a policy about ordaining
>>>>homosexuals?
>>>>
>>>>a. In 1982, the Standing High Council wrote a
>>>>document. From that document, the First
>Presidency
>>>>created a policy that does not allow ordination of
>>>>anyone (heterosexual or homosexual) involved in
>>sexual
>>>>relationships outside of marriage.
>>>>
>>>>The wording is different, the second one changing
>the
>>>>meaning of the first one. True? False?
>>>>
>>>>That makes the c-not-of-c leadership a pack of
>liars.
>>>>True? False?
>>>>
>>>>Lois
>>>True
>>>False
>>>False
>>>
>>>if you read the SHC statement, it is clear that it is
>>>about extramarital sexual relations. That is the
>>>clear context. It further lays the basis for that in
>>>the fact that homosexuals, in 1982 (and still in many
>>>places today),could not legally marry.
>>>The context of the policy in 1982, as it still is,
>>>relates to sexual promiscuity...not whether it is
>>>heterosexual or homosexual, per se.
>>
>>matt,
>>
>>true, true, true
>>
>>I see you are up to your old legal schmlegal game
>>again. Namely, that now that in some states same
>>gender marriages are legal that it is not fornication
>>anymore. The 1982 statement was against practicing
>>homosexuality. I mentioned the book, 1984, not long
>>ago. The community of anti-christ is fond of rewriting
>>history.
>>
>>Lois
>
>Lois, what has happened in the Community of Christ is
>that it has become so secular that it looks to secular
>law for guidance in what used to be spiritual matters.
>As Jesus said of the apostate Jews, "Ye have made the
>Law of none effect by your traditions." And in the
>case of Christians, the salvation of Jesus Christ has
>been made null and void by their traditions as well.
>It's just ironic that a Restoration cult has done it,
>too.
>
>I just fail to see why apostates act so anxious to
>court approval.
>
>George
no defense of the policy or statement against it. just pointing out that the basis of the 1982 SHC statement is sex outside of marriage. in 1982 there was no place in the US that homosexuals could be legally married. indeed in many states homosexuality was illegal.
the clarification or restating of the SHC later in 200? was basically an appeasement. again, i am not defending or condemning that policy, just stating reality.
you may twist it however you wish, and conclude whatever you wish to conclude, but you should know the fact.
now, today, the issue that the national conferences in australia and canada have already met to discuss and usa conference will discuss in april 2013, is being considered under significantly different circumstances. in a growing number of places, same sex marriage is now legal. anti-homosexuality laws have been stricken across the usa, etc.
so now the church in these places is confronted by the fact that the societal basis for a policy no longer exists. and the question before the church(not just now in this specific situation and time, but always) is how does the church faithfully represent the christ in the world.
some would choose to basically ignore that question or insist that the world must conform monolithically to some (their) predetermined set of mores and rules and theology - none of which will ever be specifically stated, because there is never consensus of more than one on what the list is, but the one is very certain.
many, however, would choose to confront that question daily, aware that such questions are messy and difficult and rarely have satisfactory answers; but also aware that the answer is not really the important matter. rather it is the faithful pursuit and persistent questioning to know and understand the will of god and how gods heart of justice and love can be most effectively demonstrated in the world.
i choose to be counted in the latter.

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Re: new world church secretary -- George, 20:24:48 11/15/12 Thu