VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3], 4 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 08:53:27 02/03/04 Tue
Author: shk24
Author Host/IP: 208.17.34.25
Subject: finally just watched it and enjoyed it...
In reply to: Kuzibah 's message, "Angel 5/11 *SPOILERS*" on 09:49:42 01/29/04 Thu

i pretty much have to say that i thought it was really well done...

i can understand why people are upset with andrew's attitude toward angel and the gang but based on their expressions during the first meeting, i got the feeling they didn't take his comments to heart.

andrew will always be a wannabe, but he has also found a use for himself where before he was just a patsy. i think he has a little of the old wesley in him: arrogant, slightly incompetent, and very insecure. and while he will never amount to "rogue demon hunter", i think he has potential to be helpful in his capacity as a psuedo watcher.

i thought the actress who played dana did a tremendous job conveying her pain without saying much. like pouncer, i too was caught in between whether it was spike who had tortured her or someone else.

like everyone else, i thought the last scene was written and acted out as well as any from either buffy or angel...

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> I liked it quite a bit. -- Anthony, 03:35:13 02/04/04 Wed (67.160.214.245)

For some reason, the way Andrew pronounces "vampire" cracks my shit up each and every time.

Perhaps there is some hypocrisy in the Scoobies' stance on Angel's association with Wolfram and Hart, but I think this hypocrisy has been, on occasion, brought up. They employ a curious set of double standards, such as in their treatment of Willow's evil versus Spike and Faith's, et al. That they would see no problem in risking Angel's life (they didn't, after all, know Spike was in the mix) seems like one of those weird blind spots--they don't acknowledge that their actions are just as morally questionable as Angel's, nor that they've got their share of grey characters working for them as well (I can't think of one Scooby who hasn't, at some point, employed questionable ethics towards a particular end).

The point that Buffy doesn't deal well with such a stated shades of grey organization as Los Angeles branch Wolfram and Hart version 2.0 (since she's more than willing, when the occasion requires it, to employ those who fall under shades of grey) is well taken. Perhaps she didn't expect the slayer to be as dangerous as she was; maybe she didn't think Angel's life would truly be in danger, and was willing to place him in the line of fire since it's been proven he can handle himself.

Also, re: the army of slayers. Well, I thought it was a really interesting twist to have Andrew reveal himself as cold, manipulative, and fully qualified as Watcher material. He skunked Angel, pure and simple, and despite the inherent questionability of Andrew's actions, he did what needed to be done from their point of view. The way I saw it was that it was a test of Angel; would he try to keep the Slayer at Wolfram and Hart, securing a powerful weapon for a firm that, until recently, was fully aligned with evil, or would he prove his loyalty to the gang (and good) by sending her directly to be with fellow slayers? An unfair test, to be sure, but I can see why Giles might have put Andrew up to it.

The only problem with this episode, as I see it, is that it sets up a real showdown between Angel's people and the Scoobies. I don't like the idea of these two camps becoming rigidly opposed without the ability to set up a real confrontation this season. I'd much rather this episode come next season, after Joss had signed contracts for all the major players to commit to a few episodes that would explore the new dynamic and set in motion some sort of showdown between the two groups. When you play with such a charged history, I feel you should really follow up on it in some manner.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> That last paragraph makes a very good point. -- wwolfe, 12:49:33 02/04/04 Wed (161.149.63.107)

I can't see any way they can follow through on the issues they've raised this season.


[ Edit | View ]


Forum timezone: GMT-5
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.