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Date Posted: 09:25:40 11/13/03 Thu
Author: Kuzibah
Author Host/IP: 12.175.117.195
Subject: Angel 5/7 *SPOILERS*

Finally, FINALLY, a Wes-heavy episode. A Wes-heavy episode that actually gives him character development, and actually tries to resolve two years of discord in the Angel-Wesley relationship in a satisfying way.

Let's start with the end first: Wes shoots his Father to protect Angel and Fred. Okay, he really shoots a cyborg that looks like his dad, but the point is, at the moment he pulls the trigger (what? ten times? Damn.) he truly believes he is killing his own father. Then he deals with the fallout--- not the shock of committing patricide, as Angel and the rest understand, but the realization that he truly believes his father capable of such betrayel.

Fred tells him that he must have known on some level that it wasn't Roger, the unspoken implication being that Wes's father wouldn't attack his son and threaten to kill those he cared about. But Wes knows better. Not only is his father capable of this kind of treachery, but Wes isn't even that surprised by it. For Wes to come to this understanding of his father and himself must be a terrible blow.

But at the same time, Angel now understands Wesley's betrayel of him, even though he's the only one who remembers it. Yes, Wesley took Connor away. But it wasn't personal, he was just doing what he believed was the right thing for all concerned, regardless of his personal feelings. I think this may the first step in healing the rift between them. At least, I hope it is. Wesley's going to need some family.

A few other quick notes:

Eve continues to annoy. Sorry, she can try and sell that she's eeeevil, but I ain't buying. Did like the scene in the elevator with her and Spike, though, but mainly for the implication that he's going to kill her as soon as he's solid enough.

Speaking of that, I really like insecure Spike and Angel, the two non-humans who don't quite get it. Great funny delivery from both of them.

The Fred/Wes/Knox triangle is doing not a thing for me, just because they're not giving Fred much of a personality about it. Is she really that clueless, or does she just prefer Knox? And why is that? And what's so great about her that makes Wesley want her, anyway, besides the fact that she's the only non-evil human without a Y chromosome in the building? No, I'm totally serious. She's got nothing. Here Wes is pining over her, and I'm thinking, she doesn't even know him well enough to know his relationship with his parents is so troubled (or is too clueless to care). Come on, Wes, there are girls out there who are more than simpering dishrags.

And speaking of that, apparently in the altered reality-without-Connor Wesley still banged Lilah and ended up dismembering her. This contributes heavily to my "none of that happened except when it did" theory.

Not much Angel, but my understanding is that is more of a function of DB having a knee injury, so that's fine.

Roy Dotrice- excellent job as Roger. He has a long history of genre work, so it's nice to see him in the Angelverse.

And next week: Historical flashbacks. Oh, yeah, baby!

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Replies:

[> Once again, I've only seen 20 mintues. More tomorrow. -- Grim ,_,_), 09:35:53 11/13/03 Thu (66.95.229.84)


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[> [> Ok. Here we go. -- Grim ,_,_), 11:20:54 11/14/03 Fri (66.95.229.84)

Wesley was great. Top to bottom. Great.

As soon as I saw Fred at the meeting I turned to Kuz and said, "What is she doing there?" I'm glad I caught that before the trouble started. However, Fred was never in a position to be hit by anything, so how was she injured?

Spike = completely wasted this week
Lorne = completely wasted this week
Gunn = 3 lines?
Fred = so what?
Eve = For God's sake would somebody please kill her
Wesley's dad = Rockin' performance! Roy Dotrice has always been a favorite. he did not disappoint.

I actually liked the 20 minutes I saw on Wednesday more when I hadn't seen the rest of the show. the peak of the show was Wesley's shooting of his apparent father and the following reactions before and after he realized that it wasn't.

The ending phone call could have ended when he picked up the phone, after he dialed, after he said, "Hello, mother?" or when they did, taking the hardest route for the audience. I applaud that decision.

All that being said the show felt somewhat uneven to me. Several characters got their "cup of sugar" lines in and left or delivered such out of character phrases that I winced. I liked the story (you can't go wrong with ninjas -- even cybernetic ones) and I understand that you can't have all the characters get "meat" every week. I think that just points up that there are too many recurring characters on the show.

Overall: The Wesly parts were great the rest Drew just doesn't have an ear for the characters.

I liked last weeks show better. Give me masked wrestlers any time.


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[> I only read the first few lines of your review -- Pouncer, 09:50:53 11/13/03 Thu (156.80.140.118)

Because I taped Angel and watched The O.C. But even that small hint makes me want to rush home and start the VCR. Hopefully, more from me tonight or tomorrow.


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[> Drew Goddard should shorten his name to Drew God. -- Mo, 09:52:07 11/13/03 Thu (169.152.251.99)

In this episode alone, he's managed to give Fred, Wes, Spike, Angel, and Lorne their best-ever lines, in my opinion. He also knows how to create a tense atmosphere, such as the opening bit, where Bruiser from "Ocean's Eleven" mysteriously gets impaled and the cyborg ninja attacks. Plus he managed to make "cyborg ninjas" not seem a ridiculous concept.

I loved this episode. At first, when they revealed Roger to be a cyborg ninja, I was a little disappointed, but the following sequence, with Wes dealing with all of what you described above, made me actually like it more than if he HAD killed his father.

I loved Spike saying, "I shout that sometimes...when it gets dark."


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[> This is now my favorite episode of the show, along with "The Somnambulist." -- wwolfe, 10:25:08 11/13/03 Thu (161.149.63.107)

I thought it was absolutely terrific from start to finish, with the sole caveat of the Wes/Fred/Dipshit triangle, which you have described perfectly. I'll add only, regarding Knox, that guys who are acutely aware of their own adorability are insufferable. I have a rapidly growing desire to see something large and heavy squash this character into a gooey pink paste. (If Fred happened to be inadvertently standing next to him when this happened, I'd somehow learn to soldier on.)

Joss remains perhaps the only TV creator who can convey a profound sense of tragedy. This episode and its depiction of Wesley's relationship with his father, was one of the best examples of that ability.

After the Ultimate Jump the Shark Moment that was Cordy's Shaft o' Light, and after the 22-episode train wreck that was Season Four, I'm amazed how good this show has been this year.

Which, oddly enough, leaves me a little pissed at Joss: for years, I said he should concentrate on "Buffy," because the quality of that show clearly declined when he was distracted by other responsibilities. Now that he no longer has anything but "Angel" to work on, the quality of the show has skyrocketed. When I think how much better the last four years of "Buffy" would have been, had he spent the same time and care on it that he can now spend on "Angel," it's very frustrating.


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[> [> Wordy McWord to that first paragraph -- Kuzibah, 09:34:13 11/14/03 Fri (12.175.117.195)

And I will say, that although they still seem to have abandoned the recovering-addict metaphor, I am prefering this version of Angel, who actually seems to care about his friends, to the asshole of the last two years.


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[> Re: Angel 5/7 *SPOILERS* -- Mcookies, 10:36:24 11/13/03 Thu (66.28.244.34)

This was a great episode from start to finish. My boyfriend, who's usual connection to Angel is that he's in the same room when I'm watching it, watched it and really enjoyed it. THAT is saying something. When Wesley emptied the gun into his father, BF was stunned. ("Damn! If he'd had another gun, he'd have emptied that one into him too.") I also liked the references to the past (Spike's comment about some people like to have sex with robots). I skipped most of last season's Angel, but I'm soooo glad I came back.


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[> I just Luuuuuurve me some Wesley. And the episode was great as well. -- Delirium, 02:07:59 11/14/03 Fri (68.120.90.230)

I'm sooooo glad they finally gave Alexis something to do and he certainly did a masterful job with it, from running into the doors on account of his father making him uncomfortable (in the middle of having the worst day ever!) to the cold fury when he emptied the gun into his FauxFather. Good Alexis, go.

Yeah, I found it interesting that he did remember having had some sort of relationship with Lilah, odd since the situation that created it never happened. I wonder what memories have been manufactured to fill in the Connor-sized blanks. I don't remember if Wesley's throat scar is gone.

Spike still feels a bit off too me, like they're trying to pack in as many funny asides with him as they can. Otherwise, I'm also lining up to be a minion of Drew God. ;)

-Del


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[> [> Yes, Alexis completely rocked -- Kuzibah, 09:41:18 11/14/03 Fri (12.175.117.195)

Every time he gets a meaty episode like this, I feel this deep shame that I hated him so much on Buffy and was so vocally against his joining Angel.


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[> I want to take Wesley away from it all -- Pouncer, 09:10:45 11/14/03 Fri (156.80.140.118)

I watched this last night, and I adored it. They managed to convey Wesley's feelings of inadequacy in the face of his father without hearkening back directly to the abuse he suffered. Every cringe, every "mistake", was a result of nerves and fear.

The ending was breathtaking. Wesley facing down his paternal betrayer, determined that he won't succeed. And the way he immediately shot him (I counted, Kuz - nine times) made me sit up and gasp. And his reactions afterwards were just heartbreaking. Especially that horrid phone conversation with his father.


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[> [> Okay, how about the bird story -- Kuzibah, 10:03:13 11/14/03 Fri (12.175.117.195)

This was such a throwaway, that I forgot about it until reading another review yesterday, then I paid more attention when I rewatched the episode with Grim last night.

I mean, imagine little Wesley, seven years old, with this little dead bird, in a shoebox, probably, struggling with his Father's books, trying to save this little creature, thinking all the while (thanks to his dad) that he's too stupid and bad to figure it out.

Then, this event, which probably did so much to shape his personality (I have to be as good and smart as I can, so I can help save people), becomes a family joke! One more example of what a fool his son is.

I was so mad at Fred for laughing at that. If I were Wesley, that would have definitely chilled any fond feeling I had for her, but Wesley may be a bit of an emotional masochist.


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[> [> [> Oh god, yes -- Pouncer, 10:26:46 11/14/03 Fri (156.80.140.118)

Heartbreaking, to think of all his effort and caring for a dumb creature being subverted into a joke. I remember the episode where his history of being locked in the closet under the stairs was revealed (the demon-possession one, although I don't remember the title) and how I felt for him. That feeling has come back a hundred-fold, because of the insensitivity and outright abuse of his father. The robot acted enough like his father that Wesley *believed* that it was him. And he still shot him without hesitation? There's so much rage bottled up inside him, and he still feels guilty. That final scene in the office chokes me up even this morning.

Wesley deals with so much baggage from his childhood and his failure with Faith. I'm astonished at how much his bumbling came from a hideous lack of self-confidence. You know he had none in himself. Gah. I just want to find him and give him a hug!


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