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Date Posted: 10:27:59 12/10/03 Wed
Author: Grim ,_,_)
Author Host/IP: 66.95.229.84
Subject: Comet, Santa and most of the other characters are real d!cks.
In reply to: Delirium 's message, "Okay, so they're showing "Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer" tonight" on 00:42:25 12/10/03 Wed

"We won't let him play in any of OUR games."

I always loved Bumble, cos I can also put the star on top of the tree without a ladder.

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Replies:

[> I'll have to watch that to see what I think. -- wwolfe, 12:06:01 12/10/03 Wed (161.149.63.110)

I like the idea, though.

I'm often surprised seeing some movie from the Thirties that I haven't seen since was a kid and realizing that one of the characters is clearly supposed to be gay, without anyone saying so out loud. It always adds an extra, interesting layer of subtext.


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[> [> Did you ever read or see the documentary based on "The Celluloid Closet?" -- Kuzibah, 14:34:55 12/10/03 Wed (12.175.117.195)

It talked about just that phenomenon (among other things- see the out-of-context "evil dead lesbian" theory you-know where): How pre-Hayes Code there were characters who were clearly gay or lesbian, but afterward they had to be "tomboys" or "confirmed bachelors." Interesting stuff.


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[> [> [> I've seen the second half a couple times. -- wwolfe, 16:13:08 12/10/03 Wed (161.149.63.110)

They discussed the evil dead lesbian theory in connection with "The Childrens Hour." One of the reasons I always rejected the Kittens argument on this topic regarding the death of Tara is because I DID see this section of the documentary: it was clear to me that Tara's death did not meet the criteria.

It wasn't until I saw the documentary that I realized Franklin Pangborn's characters were ALWAYS gay. How I'd missed that is beyond me.


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[> [> [> [> If you want to read some fairly good analysis... -- Kuzibah, 17:53:50 12/10/03 Wed (12.175.117.195)

...of all this as it pertains to Buffy, check these LJ entries:

The Dead Gay Stereotype

Buffy and Gay Stereotypes

Angel and Gay Stereotypes

Can't say I agree with everything, but it is a fairly interesting commentary.


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[> [> [> [> [> Thanks for the links. -- wwolfe, 19:43:36 12/10/03 Wed (161.149.63.110)

These were reasonable and sensible. For myself, I've always thought that the point at which ME made a mistake with Willow was when they decided to change her sexual preference in order to make a socio-political point. Whether one does or does not agree with the point being made isn't the issue. Rather, the problem is that whenever a character is reduced to an agenda, the artistry of the finished work suffers.


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