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Date Posted: 08:12:16 05/03/02 Fri
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I

The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)

MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

dori
In Response To Come on, Murray
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 11:37

Your comment to Coinky breaks your personal rule of civility:

"All you ever talk about is a mystical vagueness and a fuzzy, sappy universalism, both of which
I find sickening."

Is that necessary? I'm the one who picks on her here, darn it!!! But, seriously, although I have
a bit of trouble accepting a lot of the fuzzy things she says, I do understand what she is saying
and agree with her on many of the points you call "universalism." God IS bigger than Christians
make Him.

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 11:29

Go for it. I don't have enough rope.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 11:23

OK, so do I get a chance to clarify or do you wish to string me up for an apparent
contradiction?

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 11:09

Yes, it is conceivable that He would have done that. In fact, He is doing it. It's called the
Great Commission. And, yes, Jesus does have a monopoly.

You're contradicting yourself. If God sent the Holy Spirit also in the form of Buddha and
Mohammed, then Jesus doesn't have a monopoly. If the Holy Spirit is to be found in the
wonders of Nature, then Jesus certainly doesn't.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:50

Yes, it is conceivable that He would have done that. In fact, He is doing it. It's called the Great
Commission. And, yes, Jesus does have a monopoly. He is the only Savior. He bore our lives
upon Himself on the cross and an exchange was made there so we could have his life. That we
could become partakers of the divine nature. That we could have a visceral experience of the
love of God. Everything else is just hokey, superficial sentiment or religious jargon and doctrine
with no ability to deeply impact and transform a person's life. He made the whole thing so big
that we couldn't possibly miss it. Every time the date is written, it is a testimony to Him. It even
hit you to the extent you are willing, with a qualifier, to call yourself a Christian.

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:26

I don't know what Holy Spirit you are talking about, but the one I know is the one Jesus
said the Father would send in His name. (John 14:26)

And I guess it's inconceivable to you that He might have also sent that same Holy Spirit to
other tribes of folks in other names, such as Buddha, Mohammed, Hari Krishna, Amen, etc.,
etc.

Is the objective a love of God and the mankind of his creation? Or is the objective a monopoly
on the market?

`Ctaj
In Response To Coinkydink
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:21

To succeed, you just have to force your Reason to triumph over your Emotion, especially
Fear. You have to convince yourself that snakes don't live under water. At least rattelsnakes
don't.

Do they??

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink 9:40
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:21

The only sense I draw from your last comment to me is that what you have not entered into
yourself you do not see in others. A couple of definitive earmarks of a Christian is a person
who manifests deep reverence for the Lord Jesus Christ and a high esteem for the Scriptures. I
think George Fox captured the proper view of Scripture when he attested to being in the Spirit
that brought them forth and that what the Spirit taught him was in agreement with what was
written there. All you ever talk about is a mystical vagueness and a fuzzy, sappy universalism,
both of which I find sickening. I don't know what Holy Spirit you are talking about, but the one
I know is the one Jesus said the Father would send in His name. (John 14:26)

`Ctaj
In Response To Coinkydink
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:16

Handfishing takes practice. The first several times you feel a fish you have a tendency to jerk
your hands back. It's awfully hard to tell the difference under water between the skin of a fish
and the skin of a snake.

`Ctaj
In Response To Coinkydink
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 10:10

I remember sitting as a child on a rock in the center of a running stream... it took my soul
out of the cares of the world and I felt god was there with me.

Try "handfishing" sometime. Find a curve in a mountain stream where the water is about 4'
deep and the bank is undercut by the water. Fish like to hide in the undercut in the bank. If you
wade up slowly and carefully, and move your hands along the banks, sometimes you can catch
a trout, if you don't jump when you feel it.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Thursday May 2, 2002 at 9:40

I think one thing that has prevented the church from being what it was intended by Jesus, is
that the focus was shifted from one of a mystical experience of God within the soul of the
believer, which produces a major change in that person...to learning about God and interacting
through an intermediary (a priest or minister), which makes it a performance of the mind, not
the soul and prevents the HS from making the change in most cases. Many of those Christians
probably still were able to interface directly with the HS and were really changed, but the vast
majority of christians, IMO, have just gone through the motions and attended church, took
communion and remained basically the same as before.

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