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[> [> [> Re: 2023 realignment & 'countable opponents' -- David S., 03:40:56 07/07/23 Fri (173.216.87.236)

>>>Unless I missed or overlooked something, the
>>>conference pages should now all be updated to reflect
>>>the proper alignment for 2023. There are some new
>>>conferences to replace some old ones, so refresh the
>>>index frame to make sure they're showing up (you
>>>should see 'Big South-OVC Football Assocation' now
>>>instead of Big South and Ohio Valley Conference
>>>separately, for example). Please let me know if i
>>>missed something.
>>>
>>>A new thing to facilitate navigation: if you click on
>>>the helmet image at the top of the conference page it
>>>will jump down to the section for that team on the
>>>page. This has only been done thus far for three
>>>conference pages (the FBS conferences that had major
>>>realignment upheaval this year) but I will likely
>>>eventually do it for at least most of the Division I
>>>conferences. I consider this to be a low priority so
>>>it likely will not be completed anytime soon.
>>>
>>>'Countable opponents'
>>>
>>>Both the NCAA and NAIA now maintain a list of
>>>'non-countable opponents' to help their membership
>>>know who they cannot schedule and have those games
>>>count for win-loss records, statistics, etc. The
>>>criteria for the two organizations seem to be nearly
>>>identical and I've noticed only one apparent
>>>contradiction between the two.
>>>
>>>The NCAA list is here, and was updated most recently
>>>June 28, 2023:
>>>
>>>http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/CountOppDefinit
>i
>>o
>>>n.pdf
>>>
>>>The NAIA list is here, and was updated at least as
>>>recently as May 16, 2023:
>>>
>>>https://www.naia.org/legislative/countable-opponents
>>>
>>>Both NCAA and NAIA state that the list of teams above
>>>are not complete - other 'non-countable' opponents
>>>exist.
>>>
>>>It is my current policy to include at the website
>NCAA
>>>and NAIA teams, plus currently 'countable opponents'
>>>for either, so again please let me know if I missed
>>>anything. Both the NCAA and NAIA include as countable
>>>opponents members of the National Christian College
>>>Athletic Association (NCCAA), but upon inspecting a
>>>list of the 15 NCCAA institutions which had football
>>>teams in 2022-23 at:
>>>
>>>https://thenccaa.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=20
>2
>>2
>>>
>>>I noticed only two that are not also members of
>either
>>>the NCAA or NAIA. Those two are Virginia University
>>>Lynchburg and University of Fort Lauderdale, both of
>>>which are included at the 'helmet project' website on
>>>the page labelled 'other college teams' down towards
>>>the bottom of the site index.
>>>
>>>Lincoln University in Oakland, CA apparently
>qualifies
>>>as "countable" via some other means, as it is not an
>>>NCCAA team. Accreditation via various bodies is
>>>another way to achieve "countability".
>>>
>>>The one discrepancy I found between NAIA and NCAA is
>>>the Apprentice School, the shipbuilding school in
>>>Virginia which has played small-college opponents in
>>>the mid-Atlantic region for more than a hundred
>years.
>>>Presently the school appears on the "non-countable"
>>>NAIA list, but is not listed as "non-countable" by
>the
>>>NCAA. At least five NCAA teams show Apprentice School
>>>on their 2023 football schedule but none label the
>>>game as an "exhibition", so I would assume Apprentice
>>>School remains countable for NCAA.
>>>
>>>Could there be some "countable" opponents (via the
>>>accreditiation qualification) that nonetheless choose
>>>not to schedule NCAA or NAIA opponents? If so, I
>>>suppose they should be included at the website...but
>>>I'm unaware of any such team.
>>>
>>>Thanks as always for your reports and contributions!
>>
>>
>>A third football school would be in NCCAA next year
>>which would be countable. Carolina Christian College
>>is joining the NCCAA and be adding football 2024. They
>>recently added sports, and have been around since the
>>50s.
>>
>>Williamson Trades might be changing from 2 year to 4
>>years since they are a candidate I think with Middle
>>States.
>>
>>Somebody already pointed out John Melvin.
>>
>>Blue Lights Academy is actually a different type, and
>>it is a police academy. They introduced sports for
>>their cadets.
>
>
>
>Williamson may not be alone; I'm hearing that The
>Apprentice School is also applying to Mid States and
>moving to 4 years, adding some associate degree
>courses. How this affects their membership i the
>Seaboard Conference will be interesting.
>
>Blue Lights falls somewhere between a post-graduate
>prep school and a juco, with a choice of 7-week police
>training and two year courses. They also recommend
>their students to transfer to Wake Tech Community
>College for further education. I see no accreditation
>from Mid States, or the other 5 regional accreditation
>sources, or even ABHE or TRACS, yet their website says
>they compete with NCAA D2, D3, NAIA and NCCAA. NCAA
>lists them as non-countable. If they want
>recognition, I suggest they get some accreditation and
>maybe apply to USCAA for now.

That is interesting about Apprentice. If they go 4 year and get full accreditation from Middle States? I could see they go D3.

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[> [> [> [> Re: 2023 realignment & 'countable opponents' -- IDM3, 15:05:43 07/07/23 Fri (72.168.176.110)

>>>>Unless I missed or overlooked something, the
>>>>conference pages should now all be updated to
>reflect
>>>>the proper alignment for 2023. There are some new
>>>>conferences to replace some old ones, so refresh the
>>>>index frame to make sure they're showing up (you
>>>>should see 'Big South-OVC Football Assocation' now
>>>>instead of Big South and Ohio Valley Conference
>>>>separately, for example). Please let me know if i
>>>>missed something.
>>>>
>>>>A new thing to facilitate navigation: if you click
>on
>>>>the helmet image at the top of the conference page
>it
>>>>will jump down to the section for that team on the
>>>>page. This has only been done thus far for three
>>>>conference pages (the FBS conferences that had major
>>>>realignment upheaval this year) but I will likely
>>>>eventually do it for at least most of the Division I
>>>>conferences. I consider this to be a low priority so
>>>>it likely will not be completed anytime soon.
>>>>
>>>>'Countable opponents'
>>>>
>>>>Both the NCAA and NAIA now maintain a list of
>>>>'non-countable opponents' to help their membership
>>>>know who they cannot schedule and have those games
>>>>count for win-loss records, statistics, etc. The
>>>>criteria for the two organizations seem to be nearly
>>>>identical and I've noticed only one apparent
>>>>contradiction between the two.
>>>>
>>>>The NCAA list is here, and was updated most recently
>>>>June 28, 2023:
>>>>
>>>>http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/ForSIDs/CountOppDefini
>t
>>i
>>>o
>>>>n.pdf
>>>>
>>>>The NAIA list is here, and was updated at least as
>>>>recently as May 16, 2023:
>>>>
>>>>https://www.naia.org/legislative/countable-opponents
>>>>
>>>>Both NCAA and NAIA state that the list of teams
>above
>>>>are not complete - other 'non-countable' opponents
>>>>exist.
>>>>
>>>>It is my current policy to include at the website
>>NCAA
>>>>and NAIA teams, plus currently 'countable opponents'
>>>>for either, so again please let me know if I missed
>>>>anything. Both the NCAA and NAIA include as
>countable
>>>>opponents members of the National Christian College
>>>>Athletic Association (NCCAA), but upon inspecting a
>>>>list of the 15 NCCAA institutions which had football
>>>>teams in 2022-23 at:
>>>>
>>>>https://thenccaa.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2
>0
>>2
>>>2
>>>>
>>>>I noticed only two that are not also members of
>>either
>>>>the NCAA or NAIA. Those two are Virginia University
>>>>Lynchburg and University of Fort Lauderdale, both of
>>>>which are included at the 'helmet project' website
>on
>>>>the page labelled 'other college teams' down towards
>>>>the bottom of the site index.
>>>>
>>>>Lincoln University in Oakland, CA apparently
>>qualifies
>>>>as "countable" via some other means, as it is not an
>>>>NCCAA team. Accreditation via various bodies is
>>>>another way to achieve "countability".
>>>>
>>>>The one discrepancy I found between NAIA and NCAA is
>>>>the Apprentice School, the shipbuilding school in
>>>>Virginia which has played small-college opponents
>in
>>>>the mid-Atlantic region for more than a hundred
>>years.
>>>>Presently the school appears on the "non-countable"
>>>>NAIA list, but is not listed as "non-countable" by
>>the
>>>>NCAA. At least five NCAA teams show Apprentice
>School
>>>>on their 2023 football schedule but none label the
>>>>game as an "exhibition", so I would assume
>Apprentice
>>>>School remains countable for NCAA.
>>>>
>>>>Could there be some "countable" opponents (via the
>>>>accreditiation qualification) that nonetheless
>choose
>>>>not to schedule NCAA or NAIA opponents? If so, I
>>>>suppose they should be included at the website...but
>>>>I'm unaware of any such team.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks as always for your reports and contributions!
>>>
>>>
>>>A third football school would be in NCCAA next year
>>>which would be countable. Carolina Christian College
>>>is joining the NCCAA and be adding football 2024.
>They
>>>recently added sports, and have been around since the
>>>50s.
>>>
>>>Williamson Trades might be changing from 2 year to 4
>>>years since they are a candidate I think with Middle
>>>States.
>>>
>>>Somebody already pointed out John Melvin.
>>>
>>>Blue Lights Academy is actually a different type, and
>>>it is a police academy. They introduced sports for
>>>their cadets.
>>
>>
>>
>>Williamson may not be alone; I'm hearing that The
>>Apprentice School is also applying to Mid States and
>>moving to 4 years, adding some associate degree
>>courses. How this affects their membership i the
>>Seaboard Conference will be interesting.
>>
>>Blue Lights falls somewhere between a post-graduate
>>prep school and a juco, with a choice of 7-week police
>>training and two year courses. They also recommend
>>their students to transfer to Wake Tech Community
>>College for further education. I see no accreditation
>>from Mid States, or the other 5 regional accreditation
>>sources, or even ABHE or TRACS, yet their website says
>>they compete with NCAA D2, D3, NAIA and NCCAA. NCAA
>>lists them as non-countable. If they want
>>recognition, I suggest they get some accreditation and
>>maybe apply to USCAA for now.
>
>That is interesting about Apprentice. If they go 4
>year and get full accreditation from Middle States? I
>could see they go D3.


I forgot to mention Williamson is also in the Seaboard Conference. Seaboard is independent and not affiliated with any sanctioning body, but it's members are all 2-year jucos (Apprentice is 3-year). There were five members, but Valley Forge left after an attempted board coup in 2018 forced the school to drop it's collegiate athletics program. Should Williamson and Apprentice leave, that would leave only Thaddeus Stevens and New Jersey College. Seaboard should consider adding new members to stay alive. The only candidate I can think of right now is Hocking College (Ohio), the only juco football team in Ohio and an independent. They play mostly teams from Pennsylvania and New York, and DuPage in Illinois.

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