Continued double-talk and evasion of the issues -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 19:15:47 10/19/04 Tue
Author: Anonymous
Subject: Continued double-talk and evasion of the issues
In reply to: Brian Karcher 's message, "Re: No double-talk, loaded language or code words" on 10:57:20 10/19/04 Tue

The point I was trying to make is that Brian comes here to this board and says all sorts of grandiose claims, but he can't back them up.

>I am not using code words. If my words defend or
>condemn UBF, so be it.

Brian seems to intimate that he is ambivalent as to whether his writings defend UBF or not. Despite the obvious fact that he has put up a website "priestlynation" for the express purpose of defending UBF. Brian cannot help but defend UBF because it has been conditioned into his brain that, no matter what anyone else says, "UBF is God's work." In reality UBF is a phony pseudo-Christian cult group.

>This is because Dr.Samuel Lee and most other leaders
>care more about preaching the gospel and the kingdom
>of God than UBF.

Dear friends, what has been your experience of UBF? Do they care more about UBF or about the gospel? In my experience of UBF, they care 99% about UBF and 1% about the gospel. I think this is abundantly clear to anyone of sound mind. I wonder why Mr. Karcher chooses to honor Sam Lee by calling him "Dr." Why did Sam Lee need to purchase a fake degree if he was such a great servant of God?

>If you ever heard my life testimony, you would know
>that I've already "taken a vacation from UBF".

Brian, you know what I mean. You need to unprogram yourself from all these crazy UBF beliefs that are non-Christian. Perhaps you need to take another vacation. I still challenge you to have a good talk to Dr. Martin or Mary Chrnalogar. And by the way, I wouldn't put much credit in the veracity of your life testimony because I know how well-manipulated these "testimonies" are.

>What do you want to hear? I did participate in
>communion services and baptism services in Toledo UBF.
>These are not the focus of our ministry though:

You were putting forth a grandiose claim that UBF practices these traditions with "real meaning" not superficially like other churches. I wanted you to explain why UBF communion services or baptisms have more "real meaning" than at any other church. Or would you perhaps be willing to admit that if communion or baptism are practiced in UBF, that they are used to manipulate peoples' emotions or to deceive people into thinking that UBF is a Christian organization.

>1 Corinthians 1:17
>"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach
>the gospel not with words of human wisdom, lest the
>cross of Christ be emptied of its power."

Brian is trying to evade the issue.
>
>
>>>Fear of UBF is not what I fear. I do fear God,
>though.
>>>I thank God for a ministry that is able to teach and
>>>plant the fear of God.
>>
>>"The fear of God!" One of those loaded UBF
>>catch-phrases. In UBF, God = your shepherd or your
>>chapter director. This is what is wrong with
>>shepherding systems! Or maybe I'm wrong and Brian
>>would like to explain what the "fear of God" is and
>>how UBF is so much better at teaching this than any
>>other church.
>
>
>>>They had some good
>>>points, but not one of them taught mission as a
>>>reality.
>>
>>Brian, now's your chance! Since you know so much more
>>about "mission as a reality" than all these other
>>churches, maybe you can tell us what it is? What's
>>the secret?
>

>The "secret" is the Bible: to study the Bible and
>believe it, then obey it.

Brian has said nothing to back up his claim. I ask him why is UBF so great in its view and application of mission, and this is all he comes up with, "study the Bible, believe it and obey it." Sheesh! This just goes to show how dumb UBF Bible study really is. Why do you need a UBF shepherd to teach you this? It is taught in countless churches and sunday schools.

>Matthew 7:24
>"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and
>puts them into practice is like a wise man who built
>his house on the rock.

I get the feeling that Brian thinks he is superior when he quotes a Bible verse. Or that quoting a verse automatically closes a discussion.

>Not "all churches", only the ones I visited "seemed to
>be social-oriented."

But is not the impression explicitly made in UBF that UBF is far superior to other churches? One of the supposed reasons for other churches' inferiority is that they are just "social gatherings."

>I have considered the possibility that I am listening
>to someone or some teaching rather than God. How can I
>know? It is because of the Bible. When I obey God and
>put the Bible into practice, my assurance is real.

Have you considered that your "Bible" is not the real "Bible" because you have been coercively persuaded to believe interpretations of the Bible which are incorrect? Have you considered that you and your UBF friends teach an unbiblical shepherding doctrine?

I'll leave with a quote from Galatians 5:1 (CEV): Christ has set us free! This means we are really free. Now hold on to your freedom and don't ever become slaves of the Law again.

What UBF does is it preaches the gospel 1% of the time. The other 99% of the time, it preaches its own screwy made-up laws, trying to back them up by twisting Bible verses and making power postures.

Dear UBF members - Listen to the good news! Christ has set you free from your Shepherd, your chapter director. You don't have to obey their unbiblical "direction!" Go forth and search out a healthy Church that will allow you to grow in Jesus' grace.

Regards,
Anonymous ex-UBFer

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