Re: No double-talk, loaded language or code words -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 10:57:20 10/19/04 Tue
Author: Brian Karcher
Subject:

Re: No double-talk, loaded language or code words
In reply to: Anonymous 's message, "Double-talk and loaded language" on 17:46:15 10/13/04 Wed

>I'm sorry, but Brian's message was full of the
>double-talk and loaded language that we all know to
>expect from UBF leaders.
>
>Check out this double-talk: "I am not trying to defend
>UBF." It reminds me of when my former chapter
>director said "I am not brainwashing anyone."

I am not using code words. If my words defend or condemn UBF, so be it.

>>If UBF was destroyed
>>today, I would still be serving God the way I am
>>tomorrow.
>
>Reminiscent of the words of John Jun, my former
>chapter director, and every other Sam Lee clone out
>there - "If all UBF magically disappeared tomorrow,
>still I will do God's work (eg. propagate UBFism)."

This is because Dr.Samuel Lee and most other leaders care more about preaching the gospel and the kingdom of God than UBF.

>>Yes, I've considered whether leader's
>>intentions aren't what they seem.
>
>Brian, you haven't considered good enough. Try taking
>a vacation from UBF for a couple months or a couple
>years to free yourself of the taint. Or have a good
>chat with Dr. Paul Martin or Mary Chrnalogar. Then
>things may begin to become clear.

If you ever heard my life testimony, you would know that I've already "taken a vacation from UBF".

>>I have participated in communion and baptism. These
>>are handled carefully and not done superfically as in
>>many churches, so that they have real meaning.
>
>Wow. This is unheard of. UBF never taught anything
>about communion or baptism. Now, all of a sudden,
>they have become the world experts on the subject!
>Not like those other "superficial" churches who
>participate in ceremonies with no "real meaning."
>
>If Brian has anything real to say to back up his
>claims, I would like to hear it.

What do you want to hear? I did participate in communion services and baptism services in Toledo UBF. These are not the focus of our ministry though:

1 Corinthians 1:17
"For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power."

>>Fear of UBF is not what I fear. I do fear God, though.
>>I thank God for a ministry that is able to teach and
>>plant the fear of God.
>
>"The fear of God!" One of those loaded UBF
>catch-phrases. In UBF, God = your shepherd or your
>chapter director. This is what is wrong with
>shepherding systems! Or maybe I'm wrong and Brian
>would like to explain what the "fear of God" is and
>how UBF is so much better at teaching this than any
>other church.

>>They had some good
>>points, but not one of them taught mission as a
>>reality.
>
>Brian, now's your chance! Since you know so much more
>about "mission as a reality" than all these other
>churches, maybe you can tell us what it is? What's
>the secret?

The "secret" is the Bible: to study the Bible and believe it, then obey it.

Matthew 7:24
"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

>>Most seemed to be social-oriented.
>
>Reflective of general UBF propaganda - all churches
>but ours are "lukewarm," "just social gatherings."

Not "all churches", only the ones I visited "seemed to be social-oriented."

>Brian might consider the possibility that he is not
>listening to God, that he can't hear God's voice
>because he has been so well-programmed by his UBF
>"friends."

I have considered the possibility that I am listening to someone or some teaching rather than God. How can I know? It is because of the Bible. When I obey God and put the Bible into practice, my assurance is real.

1 Samuel 12:14,15
"14 If you fear the LORD and serve and obey him and do not rebel against his commands, and if both you and the king who reigns over you follow the LORD your God-good! 15 But if you do not obey the LORD, and if you rebel against his commands, his hand will be against you, as it was against your fathers."

Brian.

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Replies:

Theory and practice... -- Chris, 17:20:52 10/19/04 Tue
Continued double-talk and evasion of the issues -- Anonymous, 19:15:47 10/19/04 Tue