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Date Posted: 10:27:10 02/22/05 Tue
Author: Nick T.
Subject: favorite subjects
In reply to: Tony Lang 's message, "Re: How about Jackie Lee and her children?" on 07:39:45 02/22/05 Tue

I would like to say that Tony is an intelligent and experienced man. But what I see is a pattern of Tony using alternate examples to change the complexion of a subject.

For example, ubf is a highly authoritarian heirarchy. They have a stringent rank and file with lots of rules and regulations. The people at the bottom of the ubf pile have to obey all kinds of rules and protocol. But Tony has ignored the context of ubf and changed the direction of the discussion to discuss 'individual change'. I believe Tony is incorrectly assuming that the average ubfin can operate like Tony himself and all other normal people. I disagree Tony, they cannot. They are bound by the rigid ubf ways. So actually your suggestion that the low ranking people making some changes is more of a red herring than what I brought up. I think it has been mentioned before that you did not experience ubf in fullness like many of us. I don't think you ever acknowledge this, so maybe you should think about the context of ubf more in depth before making your observations.

As for my favorite subject of ubf failures in the US of A, it has to be put into context. The ubf rally cry for 20 years was how they were going to put a fulltime American shepherd on every campus, with expansive ubf buildings, raise up young Billy Grahams, raise up a zillion PhD shepherds to change the atmosphere of all the campuses and thus the whole country and the whole world, send one million missionaries, etc ad nauseum. For this they demanded everything from everyone. They caused alot of damage to people, and stole futures and life savings of everyone they could.

They declared they had a Bible mandate and promise from God to do this. They insisted the only thing holding them back was that American students were too selfish and too ungodly. According to ubf, if the American recruits would follow the ubf system and become hardcore ubfins, then God would do all that ubf was claiming. Well, here we are 30 years later and ubf is what? A flop!! Dr. Daniel Hong was just one example of the failure of ubf, there is Mark VC, Ron Ward, Kevin A, Dr. Helen, you know who, Mark M, and then the dozens of young men (like Dr. Rimas maybe the best recruit of all) and women who were recruited in and figured out the ubf was a flop, then they got out of there. Now, I put into context.

As for Jackie Lee's family, it was a very tragic event by even ubf standards. It reveals alot about ubf. Does a family really mean anything at ubf? Does anyone really matter to ubf people? Does God approve of the way that the ubf treats people? If the ordinary student knew the real ubf upfront, would they want to be involved with ubf? If the second jens, etc know all the corruption and abuse at ubf, why do they stay?

ubf has a terrible reputation, and they all totally deserving of it. As another had said, ubf is bringing dishonor to the name of the Lord. I am merely publicizing the real ubf, to warn people. If I had know then what was going on, I and everyone else would have dumped these people. I an othe others were duped.

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Replies:

Re: favorite subjects -- Chris, 11:02:05 02/22/05 Tue