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Date Posted: 08:36:46 01/18/05 Tue
Author: Nick T.
Subject: how about this suggestion?
In reply to: Robert 's message, "Re: Need some serious advice" on 21:43:59 01/17/05 Mon

Hi Robert,

As others have warned you, the best thing would be to stay away from them. But it seems you cannot do that right now, that you want some answers. Is that right? If so, you can stay on the periphery and ask your questions and demand meaningful answers to why you were expelled. It seems to me that you got along with the ubf followers, but somehow have developed a serious problem with the leader? Is that so? As others have said the followers are not there for you, they are there for the leader and the leader's use only. Who re-invited you? Was it someone sent by the leader? That should tell you alot right there.

Maybe you can use the re-inviting as a means to clear the air and get to the bottom of this getting expelled? If that is what you want to do, then I would suggest this: arrange a private meeting with him alone. Write down the questions that you need him to answer. Share them with a someone who could objectivley tell you whether these are reasonable questions to ask about a serious personal division. When you have perfected the questions, then go and meet with the ubfKorean. If he will meet with you, then let him know that you want to talk as equals, and you have some serious questions you would like answered. Be confident, if he resists then he is just manipulating you, then you should stop the meeting immediately. As you leave, tell him not to contact you untill he is ready to clear the air on these important issues. My guess is you will not hear from him anymore. Also, you may want to tape record the conversation and listen to it several times to be certain what happened.

As a word of caution, this strategy is accepted by healthy people in healthy groups. But ubf is not a healthy group, and a chronic ubfKorean like Zun is not a healthy or honest person. He will use various manipulative strategies to try to get you into line, and he wants you more into line than you were before. (the reason you were expelled is you were not perfectly in line with ubfleader)

My personal story is like this: when my ubfwife filed for divorce in 2002, a ubfKorean began to contact me. She said she would do whatever it takes to restore my family. I agreed to meet with her based on her assertions tha tshe would go voerboard to save this ubfmarriage. But when we met, all she did was try to get me to come back to the ubf, implying that if I went back to ubf, then God (ubfKoreans) would inspire my ubfwife to be a wife again. I told that ubfKorean that no matter what, I would never, ever go back to ubf. What happened next? Well, as soon as I said never to that first ubfKorean, I never heard from that person again. Later, out of the blue, a different ubfKorean came along and did the same routine. I told that one never also. Never heard from that one either. Another ubfKorean came along. All told, this process was repeated by five different ubfKoreans, but each one had the exact same approach.

They are coming at you from a hidden angle. Ask your questions very frankly, they will not answer them at all. Ask your questions indirectly, and they will use their manipulations on you. The answers will not come from their words, but they will come out in their actions. Their actions will show they do not love you, they do not respect you, they do not care anything at all about you. Their actions will show they only want to use you for their own purposes. Don't doubt your gut feelings. Make your decisions about them on what they do. Ignore everything they say unless they back it up with actions.

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Replies:

Re: how about this suggestion? -- bruce, 08:48:48 01/18/05 Tue