Re:article -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 13:56:17 10/04/04 Mon
Author: former
Subject: Re:article
In reply to: Brian Karcher 's message, "Re:article" on 13:42:40 10/04/04 Mon

Karcher says

"Why did Jesus raise disciples and then command those disciples to raise other disciples?"

"Why would Jesus and his band of rough country men not be considered a cult, according the "logic" in the article? As I go through the list presented in the article, a good case against Jesus' own ministry could be made."

I will say a couple of things here. First of all Jesus is God. He is always right and correct. Whatever he tells people to do is perfect.

Second, Jesus acted with respect toward his disciples. He answered questions when asked and genuinely served them. He was transparent to them and answered all questions.

However, we are not Jesus and we must remember our limitations and sins when approaching the discipleship question. Proper discipleship relationships abound in the Bible such as between Paul and Timothy, Barnabas and Paul, etc...

In a proper discipleship relationship there is great freedom, mutual respect, mutual submission and a transparency that lends itself to growth.

Take for example Paul talking in Galatians about the matter of eating with Gentiles. To borrow a UBFism we could say that Paul "broke spiritual order" by rebuking Peter for not eating with the disciples. Paul felt freedom to rebuke Peter and Peter felt freedom to repent. It was not the end of the world.

UBF is not Biblical discipleship. The idea that you must submit to spiritual order even when it is wrong is not Biblical. The idea that a disciple must follow his shepherd and obey him is wrong along with the idea that this submissive relationship is the source of God's blessing.

Of course we need Biblical discipleship and spiritual order. However, I think UBF has abused discipleship and used the shepherd sheep relationship to do really bad things.

For example, one UBF member asked their director about the problems in UBF. The director admitted that the problems were real and something SHOULD be done about them. However, he told the UBF member something like this, "I cannot say or do anything because of my feeling of debt toward Samuel Lee."

So here we have the situation where the "sheep" is in some sort of personal bondage to the "shepherd" that is even above Christ and the Word of God. Even though the Bible clearly states that when members and leaders sin in such a grave way that they should be rebuked and made to repent, this director refused to do anything about it.

This is one example from UBF. Is this Biblical discipleship?

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Replies:

thank you Brian and former -- Nick T., 15:06:07 10/04/04 Mon
The problem with UBF discipleship... -- Joe, 18:52:23 10/04/04 Mon
thank you Brian and former (repost) -- rsqarchive for Nick T., 11:27:06 10/06/04 Wed
The problem with UBF discipleship... -- rsqarchive for Joe, 11:33:01 10/06/04 Wed