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Date Posted: 10:56:32 10/19/04 Tue
Author: former
Subject: Small Sample of Brian's Evasions, Strawmen...etc
In reply to: sarah 's message, "To Brian Karcher" on 10:19:18 10/17/04 Sun

Karcher said:

"Yes, all of them, because I just don't see that there is a
widespread systematic problem in UBF. If the above things
should be done, then when would it end? Nearly every poster
on this forum has agreed at some point that UBF ministry
needs to be ended. These things are a "slippery slope". I
don't see how they could end in anything but denying Christ
and the priestly duty he has given us."

Evasion 1: Despite dozens of first hand testimonies, letters by leaders from 1976, 1990, and 200, Karcher says there is no widespread and systematic abuse. This is a downright lie.

Evasion 2: His argument is that investigating abuse is a "slippery slope" and would end up with us denying Christ. This is complete nonsense. Every Biblical church has a systematic and Biblical way to deal with abuse.

"I know that there are those who were wounded through their
experience in UBF ministry. These people need to reconcile
with whomever they have a problem with, and make peace with
God."

Evasion 3: Karcher puts the responsibility and proof of burden entirely upon the individual and denies the need to corporately address the abuse. This too is nonsense. The UBF board of directors is legally responsible for what goes in UBF before God and men. They must initiate an investigation.

"Blindly calling for the UBF ministry to end is not the
way to go."

Strawman 1: Karcher claims that we are arguing for UBF's destruction. Most people and most postings call for the repentance of UBF leadership and the organization, NOT its destruction.

"I pray you and they may find peace and healing from God."

Red Herring 1: Karcher is offering sympathy, whether real or feigned. I think most people do not want sympathy, they want concrete repentance from UBF leaders.


"I also point out here that I've read nearly every "victim
testimony" on the internet. There are mostly filled
with "he said, she said" words that do not convince me of an ministry-wide abuse crisis in UBF. They do convince me
that they suffered and in almost every case, something was done wrongly on both sides. I know in some cases, at least,
that the events mentioned are taken out of context and cannot be properly understood with such a one-sided story.
By the way, where are these people? Do they want the people
here on this forum to be speaking about their private lives or to be speaking for them?

Selective evidence 1 combined with red herring and change the subject: Despite the fact that there are numerous first hand credible accounts of abuse in UBF, Karcher relegates them to being hearsay. Again he blames the witnesses, and he switches the topic to being concerned about the "victims" even though the "victims" are the ones who made their testimonies public.


"I also point out here that I knew James and Rebekah Kim. I
was there when James Kim left. I was there when Paul Hong
took over in Toledo. I saw the prayers, agonies, victories
and struggles of leaders from the inside since 1987."

Irrelevancy 1: What does this have to do with the discussion? So, you saw James Kim get booted out and Paul Hong installed...so what?


I will not argue with Karcher, my point is to point out to the vulnerable his evasions and ways of avoiding discussing the truth about UBF.

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