Re: New testimony -- RSQUBF discussion forum

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Date Posted: 01:46:17 04/01/05 Fri
Author: Chris
Subject: Re: New testimony
In reply to: Andrew S. 's message, "Re: New testimony" on 16:10:21 03/31/05 Thu

Thanks, Andrew.

Concerning conditional baptism, of course, it is ok and Biblical that a Pastor makes some "test" whether the wish to be baptized is genuine, whether they really understood what the Gospel and whether there is a serious concern about sin and leaving a sinful life. One can discuss how far these checks should go. John the baptist and Acts give some clues how the Apostles dealt with baptism. There were certainly not long delays and long probation phases. What you experienced in UBF was certainly wrong and far beyond sanity.

What I found particularly crazy was the fact that you were officially already a "shepherd" (teacher), a presider and even delivered sermons, but still you were considered "not ready for baptism." In reality, it is a basic requirement for anybody to become a shepherd or teacher that you are already baptized. Baptism is the first thing you do as a Christian before you can think of anything else.

1Tim3 explains that an overseer (shepherd, bishop, elder, overseer is all synonymous in the NT) should not be a newly convert (newly baptized person in Luther translation). Even Deacons (helpers) should have a probation phase first. So the order is very clear from the Bible (and common sense): You become a believer, get baptized (without long delay), then you need to grow and have a probation phase, then, if you have become a mature Christian, you can become a deacon or shepherd (elder). The word "elder" also suggests a certain tendency that they should not be young believers, though there may be exceptions and there is no least age prescribed.

In UBF however, I was made a "group leader" even before I was born again. Actually, to be born again is equated in UBF with delivering a testimony in which you proclaim you want to be a shepherd in UBF.

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