Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man -- RSQUBF Discussion Boards 2001 highlights

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Date Posted: 11:05:48 01/09/02 Wed
Author: multiple
Subject: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man
In reply to: rsqarchive 's message, "January 2001" on 10:32:30 01/09/02 Wed

Author: ex-IRS man
Subject: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man

Where is UBF money Going? Are its members being robbed by giving hoards of money to Dr. Samuel Lee? From what I've seen and heard, even by testimonies of ex-members, some have had tuition, huge breaks on rent, countless meal outings, receptions,and a major portion of over seas journies paid by UBF. Are people really breaking their backs and bank accounts? I've been doing fine financially for the number of years I,ve been in UBF. (And I'm not a Dr., Engineer, or the like)I feel very thankful for the blessings God has given me through this ministry. I don't believe there is a money problem with Dr. Lee. Maybe, only a show of favoritism towards certain servants or students.

Author: UBF
Subject: Re: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man

I am concerned for two reasons.

First, according to the 15 questions by the Korean UBF, there was a considerable amount of money paid off to Korean shepherds and their wives in order to keep quiet about an adulterous affair. Where did this money come from? It came from UBF members donations. Would you want your money used for this purpose?

Second, UBF leaders are not accountable for how they spend any money. Don't you think members and doners have a right to know the exact way money is spent? All reputable ministries have mechanisms for financial accountability and their books are open to the public or at least the membership. UBF has nothing like that. The korean reform leaders wanted to review UBF ledgers, but Sam would not respond....what is trying to hide?

If you are truly and ex-IRS man, you must well know the importance of accountability in finances, especially in positions of trust like a church.

If Sam is so gracious, then let's open up all the books and see how
and where money goes and is spent. All should be done in the light.

Author: Anonymous
Subject: A Money Moocher

Well, ex-IRS man, I think you may have pointed out one of the biggest problems with Samuel's spending habits. The fact is he spends the money wherever he wants- paying for people's trips to Europe, parties, nice steak dinners at the Angus on Sundays, and generally showing gracious favoritism to those in good UBF standing. I can't deny that the rent breaks and tuition helps are a good thing, but they aren't necessarily given to the most needy students, but usually the ones who are nice and obedient.

But the problem is that a donation is not a pastors personal giving account, regardless of whether the pastor is giving to good or bad charities. Don't you see? All things regarding money should be done in the light- there should be nothing to be ashamed of or secretive about.

Another question, and this is a little off the subject. Is it right that Samuel Lee likes to "eat well" on Sundays only inviting a few of his favorite members out to an expensive steak dinner, and the rest of the congregation
pays for it? On top of that is it right to be having steak dinners when there are UBF missionaries in foreign countries right now who are struggling to make sure their children are getting basic nutrition? Please tell me what you think. I don't say all this to just challenge you or to try and destroy Samuel Lee's character, but I would ask you to think about these answers. Keep an open mind, listen for the Holy Spirit, and please think ethically.

Thanks.

Author: Ron Wad
Subject: Re: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man

Good question. Where is UBF money going? As you pointed out, tuition, rent, meals and trips are being paid for. But these are generally being paid for not because there is a need, but because Lee likes the students he is giving money to or because he wants to get (or stay) on their good side. But giving other people's money to people he likes does not make him a gracious man. He would be more gracious if he didn't give a cent to anyone, but actually listened to his sheep, didn't abuse his authority, and didn't crush people with human expectations and numbers goals. Amy Young testified that she received money from him even though she didn't need it. If he was a gracious man--in the spiritual definition of "gracious"--she might still be in UBF along with others.
How nice it would be if UBF had a formal scholarship program that all members could apply to. They would be granted scholarships on the basis of need and academic performance. But instead it's all about whoever Lee happens to favor at the moment.
That's not "gracious." That's not compassionate. For the first time, CBF (that's Children's Bible Fellowship) is collecting money to benefit children of incarcerated parents this Christmas. What charities does UBF give to? We gave to World Vision some years ago. Since then I can't name one. How "gracious" Lee is with our money!
We don't generally give hoards of money to Lee. We give a tenth, though some give more. Most of use give generous conference, Christmas and thanksgiving offerings. Most of us don't give beyond our means. But when all the reasonable offerings are given to one man, it adds up to quite a hoard. When this hoard is not used and managed responsibly and transparently, Mr. Ex-IRS, yes, we are being robbed.
And yes, when it comes time for MSU and Christmas Worship Services, our leaders do break their backs and often their bank accounts to register and bring the number of sheep that Lee demands. Like the people of Israel, most of us deplore having to make bricks without straw to please
our Pharaoh, but we don't act because we still have ample pots of food, a roof over our heads and clothes on our backs.
Like you, I can make ends meet. Hardly anyone in Chicago UBF is poor. But do we have to be poor in order to acknowledge that there is a money problem in Chicago UBF? "I'm doing fine financially, therefore there is no money problem?" As pointed out by me and others, giving to one's favorites not even based on their need IS a money problem. Having the "offering police" call people up when they don't meet your offering standard IS a money problem. Have you ever heard from the offering police? I have. As pointed out in the 15 questions, the newsletter is published in Korea at Korea UBF's expense, but Lee sells the newsletter to Chicago UBF members and pockets the money. Leaders are required to buy a minimum number often at a markup. That IS a money problem. We have to pay a subscription fee to get his message manuscripts, a manuscript that is freely available on the UBF web site. That IS a
money problem. He's not a money moocher? I beg to differ.
Author: Marcos
Subject: Re: A Money Moocher

You know one decisive way to end the question of money is--- don't give your offerings to UBF anymore until there is a clear cut accountability. I always suspected that notorious things were happening through UBF's shameless leader. So after reading the testimonies in this web site I said, NO MORE! I haven't give any donations to UBF since then. Instead I direct my offerings to other good causes outside of UBF.

Author: Anonymous
Subject: Re: A Money Moocher

That's a great idea Marcos, and I think you are doing the right thing. Our tithe, or donation goes to God, irrespective of which institution we give it to. If you even have a question or doubt about where you money is being spent, and nobody will provide the answers you need, then put it elsewhere into responsible hands.

I know some UBF people will think "that is soo rebellious, why are they so concerned with money? they are controlled by money and worldly desires!!" Um... no you're missing the point. The church in America has specific rules about accountability and transparency, that need to be followed. When they aren't, and things are kept secret, something begins to smell rotten. In this case I don't think the rotten smell is a bowl of Kim Chi, but a blatant cover-up in progress.

Author: Raa
Subject: Re: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man

This is something I long wanted to post here. I agree with ex-IRS man, I don't believe money extortion is a problem in UBF. As a former Moscow member, I don't remember a single instance of any missionary telling me to contribute more or avoiding questions on how the money was used. We didn't ask these questions because we actually saw how the money offerings were used. Besides, what could we contribute during the nineties when Russia was falling apart? One dollar, maybe less. On the other hand, the rent of the Bible house was enormously inflated, many missionaries survived on a very modest income, but still, they paid for our meals, if we went to a conference, they paid the even higher rentals there. When I went to Chicago in 1995 for the summer conference, I only had Russian rubles with me. I didn't pay for anything, nor for the flight ticket, neither the registration fee, let alone food, transportation fares etc.

I'm not saying though that lack of financial accountability among the leaders is a
nonexisting phenomenon. Although as I said, we never asked questions about how the money was used, I'm a hundred percent sure that should we have asked, we would be exposed as rebels, unspiritual creatures, terrible people and you name it.

Finally, I'm really very sorry to learn that M. Augustine Song was excommunicated from UBF. I deeply respect him as one of the few people in UBF who are able to think independently and make independent decisions. I hope he'll return when the reform movement gains sufficient strength.

God bless you,

Author: Wad
Subject: Re: Lee: A Money Moocher or Gracious Man

Excerpt from a James J. Kim letter to Paul Hong from www.reformubf.org:
"M. Samuel Lee is trying to buy honorary degree from Jun-Buk University with 100 million won ($150,000 US), whether or not the excuse might be donating the money for the scholarship fund. That wouldn't concern me if he would receive it without involving UBF offering money. But here he goes again that he subtly pressure S. John Jun and several loyal shepherds to squeeze money out of Korean brothers and sisters, without really knowing what's going on. Now Chong Ro brothers and sisters must squeeze their blood and sweat to raise 100,000,000 won. For what? For satisfying one man's sense of honor and dignity? Is one's degree so worthwhile that he can sacrifice the flock of sheep like that?"
Judge for yourself whether there's a money problem or not.

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Credibility -- Jimmy Rhee, 11:07:56 01/09/02 Wed