VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, [3] ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 15:49:47 01/09/02 Wed
Author: multiple
Subject: On Rumors
In reply to: rsqarchive 's message, "January 2001" on 10:32:30 01/09/02 Wed


Author: Tony
Subject: On Rumors

I think that it has become very obvious that everyone who leaves UBF has rumors spread about them. Some of the rumors are fairly benign like "well he just couldn't commit to the disciple's life" to the harmful like "she just left to live in sin with a man." It seems like the more prominant a member a person was, the bigger the allegations grow. So I think thats pretty much a fact we have to accept.

Now as far as the question that Cali Raison asked, it seems perfectly acceptable to me. If anyone is going to post here on this board regarding what they think is wrong about UBF, this kind of question is natural. If people are going to accuse the UBF leadership of doing certain wrongs, they have to catch the flack too, and better validate their testimony by answering these questions. I know it hurts but how can we expect to have everything exposed about UBF and nothing exposed about ourselves?

Now I will agree with Jimmy Rhee's opinion that UBF people love to discredit people who left by showing
some sin they had. Thats just wrong because everyone has some kind of sin or imperfection, and I mean everyone. The point is that just because someone isn't perfect it does not invalidate everything they say! Lets keep that in mind!

I also noticed that everyone seemed to be attacking Cali Raison, and the people who seemed to be were Korean. I am American, and I agree with Cali's right to ask the question, even if it did seem a little abrupt.

Ruth I'm sorry you have had these rumors spread about you, but just take them to the cross of Jesus, and nail them there. Thanks for your courage and just remember that you have made a positive difference by sharing your story.

Author: I agree
Subject: Re: On Rumors

I think that is a concern for those members in Chicago that want to leave (or any UBF for that matter) is GOSSIP. Those who feel uncomfortable in UBF worry about what will be said about them when they leave.

I think in my case, over the last couple of months I had been feeling uncomfortable with training that doesn't seem to go anywhere except to break my spirit.

In addition I was wondering if there is a way to communicate with one's shepherds to make them understand your problems and "validate" your reasons for wanting a new church.

I feel a calling to another church, I feel that my energies could be used there but I know that there will be gossip and untruthful reasons for why I left.

Why is this so weird? Was doesn't UBF bless people who want to go to a new church?

I feel so bad because many people who were close to me left for their own reasons and I was told to condemn them. I followed along and I feel so bad because I know they didn't "run away" from God they just
wanted to a new church....

I feel so discouraged and upset. I think I realize the real purpose of this web site, its for Christians to comfort one another and to ask questions.

I wish I felt free to describe what happened to me, but I don't want to say anything specific until I leave completely.

Author: I agree 2
Subject: Re: On Rumors

I know what you mean. I am going through the same thing. Did you try visiting any other churches? I would like to join a Christian & Missionary Alliance church, since I visited them before and like them real well.

I know it is hard to find people to talk to since everyone who understood probably already left. There might be some sympathetic people there, but they are afraid to show it. God bless you.

Author: I agree
Subject: Re: On Rumors

I am scared to what people will say about me. This makes me sound so insecure, but I am worried about people hurting my character. I am haven't even mentioned my friendships with other non-UBF christians because I am afraid I will be labeled as "couldn't handle training" or worse that "she has a marriage problem and is adulterous".

Do you think it is worth leaving a letter or should I just leave?

Author: I agree
Subject: Re: On Rumors

Are you under any immediate threat? Is your school work suffering? Do you feel you are being manipulated? Do you have any real friends in UBF who could listen to you at all? Also, is there any opportunity at all to talk about the Reform issues or things you don't like?

Also, I wouldn't worry about what people said about you, since it would probably lack any kind of credibility, especially now. Consider all the people from the beginning of UBF to now who have left and it will be thousands. Very many devoted leaders who sacrificed everything left. So, there is no shame.

Most of all, I encourage you to strengthen your personal love relationship with Christ. Read the New Testament letters of Paul on your own including Romans, Galations and Timothy and strengthen your personal conviction about what you should do. I don't believe I could endure Chicago UBF. The chapter I am in is more open, but it does have its problems.

Also, try connecting with other Bible based Christian groups
that you feel comfortable with. I will pray for God's guidance for you and for me. If this Reform movement ends up crushed like the last one, I will certainly be leaving.

Also, you don't have to be in a hurry. Take time and pray, and if you can talk about it. But ultimately, be personally convinced that it is God's leading.

Hope this helps,

Please pray for me too?

Author: I agree
Subject: Re: On Rumors

Thank you. I have at length spoke with Amy Young, and she has been an enormous help. I just need a little self-esteem not to worry about what will be said about me.

Thanks...I will also pray for you as well....

if you feel comfortable please email me:

blessedscarlet@netscape.net

Author: Tony
Subject: Re: On Rumors

Dear BlessedScarlet,

Thanks for sharing what you feel, and I'll respond because I was in the exact same place at one time, so maybe I can share some insight as one who has passed through it.

To be blunt, I believe that the rumor spreading and the fear of what people will say or think about oneself is a type of spiritual bondage that occurs in UBF. Its like when the Israelites left Egypt they were under a spiritual bondage. As soon as they got out they wanted right back in, and later they went back to the idol worshiping they learned in Egypt of the golden calf. Oftentimes when people leave UBF or other abusive churches they soon want right back because they miss certain things like the regular schedule of the meetings, or they can't find a church that seems to fit with their UBF influenced notion of what a church should be like.

One of the main reasons why UBF is an abusive church in Chicago is becuase of the shame-based relationships. This is a way that people's emotions are
manipulated by bringing their emotions up and down. Praising them one moment, and rebuking them the next. This occurs similarly in some dysfunctional families. If you watch there are very often stories in Samule Lee's manuscripts praising and shaming people, and sometimes he will praise someone for a long time and then suddenly mention them shamefully for a while.

My main point is that when I left UBF I was concerned for a little over a year about what they thought about me. I wanted them to think I was perfect so that they wouldn't spread rumors about me and so that they could see that I left for spiritual reasons. Finally I realized I was in a fearful bondage so I finally said you know what- I don't care anymore! What a weight was lifted off my shoulders!
By the way, even though I was still going to church and everything they still found rumors to spread about me and the "real" reason I left UBF. That really hurt, but when I decided to cast that yoke off, by God's grace I was healed.

I
hope that helps a little. You mentioned self esteem so remeber your value in God's eyes has nothing to do with outward works or with what UBF thinks of you. He values you as his child, and bought you with a price (Jesus) becauase he loves you. Just pray for his grace and find family and friends who you can talk to about this stuff, soon you will be healed and a stronger person for it!

God Bless!

Author: blessedscarlet
Subject: Re: On Rumors

I know that you are right, Tony. I know that God loves me no matter what. I have tried too many times to talk about the problems and concerns I was having. I know that no matter what I shouldn't worry about what other people say about me, but at the same time it would still hurt....

Author: blessedscarlet
Subject: Re: On Rumors

I just wanted to add one other thing. I think what makes it harder for me leave is my emotional ties I have with other UBFers. I also feel a little bit of gratitude for UBF for teaching my about Christ.

(please don't get me wrong, I am shocked and outraged at the corruption, too)

but its like a child who is abused by their parent, they still love them even tho they are hurt by them...


Author: Anon
Subject: Re: On Rumors

Yes, we must recognize those who really loved us. We cannot cut any real relationship off without pain. Recognizing that pain is part of the process of healing.

But we don't have to judge, reject, and disdain UBF. We can recognize what God has taught us here and thank him for it. Doesn't it say somewhere, "Give thanks for all things."? Have we not learned to be more compassionate, tolerant and sensitive to ours and others spiritual needs? So, you can thank God for what God has given you through UBF while at the same time realizing that there are serious problems that need to be worked out in it. The real problem is not the problems, but the leaders recognizing that there is a problem.

If you feel strong and independent in faith and in Christ to take on the entrenched monolithic hierarchy, by all means stay and fight. But if you feel you cannot endure it and are going to be absorbed into its unhealthy patterns of authority and relationships, then you can bless it and leave and go where
Christ may lead you, which will be by God's grace to a loving, Bible based body of believers.

Whatever decision you make, do it before Christ and without guilt. Christ does not judge you so you should not judge yourself.

Also, concerning the shame of leaving. Consider Christ. Was he not maligned as a blasphemer, unrighteous, wicked and shameful? Was he not held up on the cross unjustly mocked for all to see even though he is the pure and holy Son of God? How much more will we bear the shame of mockers who feel the need to justify themselves. Whatever anyone says about you whether it is true or slander, Christ bore it on the cross and took your shame. So, if people say something about you or to you, look at Christ who bore your shame on the cross. He is the one who justifies you before the Father, and you need not worry about anyone else.

God bless you.

Author: blessedscarlet
Subject: Re: On Rumors

Anonymous,
you are right! Jesus was mocked and many said mean and untrue things about him. But Jesus never fought back, he knew the truth and the love of God....hmmm thinking about it that way really helps...
thanks

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

  • Conversation w/ member of Board -- multiple, 15:51:02 01/09/02 Wed
    [ Contact Forum Admin ]

    Forum timezone: GMT-6
    VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
    Before posting please read our privacy policy.
    VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
    Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.