VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 15:37:47 05/28/05 Sat
Author: Mary, quite contrary
Subject: Yes, that is sad, Leif
In reply to: Leif Erlingsson 's message, "Swedes are very individualistic :)" on 15:52:16 05/27/05 Fri

Here I will be contrary.

(with a wink)

I'm not going to try to argue with you; you sound committed to your feelings. And I believe in agency.

But, one of the first important things Jesus Christ said to His apostles was "be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

It's been repeated in modern revelation.

It is a true and important principle.

We don't all have the same gifts, but I believe it is a gift to remain firmly planted on "gospel sod" while knowing the hidden things. We are admonished to know those hidden things. We don't HAVE to say all that we believe. While listening to "malarky" about politics in a Sunday School class, it may be wiser NOT to speak up. When we speak up we can forfeit our ability to do more good later. I think President Hinckley learned that principle long, long ago. I happen to know that he personally does some things he never speaks about, things which are quite out-of-the-ordinary; he sees no need to rock boats which could be getting him down the river (towards a heavenly end) faster.
The world's way is to shout; it isn't God's way. He works in whispers. Shouting just makes people tired and stops their ears. But, in time, there will be shouting. All the people with bad hearts will be exposed, including all the conspiracists, and then, I believe, even those saints and other good people of all faiths, who have been deceived will see.

We are all in a state of apostasy to some extent. When we scold a child without the Spirit, when we turn our backs on someone in need, when we forget to be kind; all these things are "gentle" forms of apostasy. Not to mention our unwillingness to see things as they really are. Re-education of those who have been deceived in Zion will be a top priority for those who remain faithful while seeking the truth.

No MAN can be completely without sin. I don't believe President Hinckley knows the entire "story", because he doesn't have time. It's not his calling. That's why he is so careful, so vague. I believe he is deliberately quite vague, but I also believe that his greatest personal power is his testimony of Jesus Christ, who will make all things right, ultimately. He will. In spite of all the bad guys. In spite of all the conspirators. And, no organization is free of its blemishes. I am not a member of the JBS, but I do know good people, whose hearts are right, who are, and I believe they felt that the good outweighed the bad. All those of us who struggled to find alternative candidates during the American election realized that nobody was without "sin".
A little joke here--
I guess those good Lutherans who gave us such a wonderful work ethic aren't without arrogance, either!

It is the same with the church; even though some members appear to be selling their right to have the truth for a mess of pottage (being in congress, for example); there are those who quietly watch what is happening, keeping their testimonies of Jesus Christ bright and being as wise as a serpent. THERE is your contradiction, after all (with a wink by a contrary person)--that we are admonished to be wise as a serpent, and what did a serpent do?

Irony. The church is full of it. And Jesus is well aware of it. I'm sorry you've left, Leif.

(Mary, contrary AND trying to be wise)

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

  • Well.... -- Leif Erlingsson, heretic®, 13:16:39 05/29/05 Sun

  • Mary, quite contrary -- Leif Erlingsson, heretic®, 14:44:07 05/29/05 Sun

  • The LDS people are among the best... -- Leif Erlingsson, heretic®, 15:07:18 05/29/05 Sun

  • ah, blind faith -- KathyT, 14:35:12 06/01/05 Wed

    Post a message:
    This forum requires an account to post.
    [ Create Account ]
    [ Login ]
    [ Contact Forum Admin ]

    Forum timezone: GMT-8
    VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
    Before posting please read our privacy policy.
    VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
    Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.