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Subject: profound silence Author: John [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 05:05:24 02/16/03 Sun So, are Jeff and Ken Instant Messaging eachother every day, or is everyone busy. You guys certainly aren't posting here very much. I was going to tell you guys all about the amazing goings on over here, but if you're not interested... [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: profound silence Author: Jeff [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:14:09 02/16/03 Sun No, Ken just disappeared online. I haven't seen him online since the last time we 'talked' by the water cooler. Ken im'ed me early last week while at work...and we talked for a little but thats about it. After my last two postings, I decided to stop til I heard from someone else. For you to NOT write...now that's a cop out unless you're teasing. It never stopped me from sharing....you could have put something out there anyway, hell I would've responded back. So it really sucks that you were GOING to write but decided NOT to. Isn't that Passive/Agressive? Ken, what are your thoughts on this? Curt, Is John really as Passive/Agressive as you've suggested to us all, so many years ago? You could have at LEAST told us if you're getting laid! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: profound silence Author: Ken [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:03:45 02/17/03 Mon Sorry. Just bowing to this neon god I've made. >So, are Jeff and Ken Instant Messaging eachother every >day, or is everyone busy. We were IM'ing a bit there. Spent some quality time on M&I's dime, too. Then he pissed me off (which is quite easy to do, especially for Jeff) and I fell off the edge of the Earth again. Curt is evidently still roughing it in the wilds of Tahoe and will be out of touch until they get one of those stationary-bike-powered generators out there to power a hopped-up Commodore 64 with a two-way microwave satellite link for internet communications with civilization. I see you've decided to epitomize everything I despise about global trade by chiseling Laotian peasants for a bigger profit margin on your Marco Polo by Ralph Lauren line. Mostly, I just haven't felt very chatty. >I was going to tell you guys >all about the amazing goings on over here, but if >you're not interested... I hear Bangkok police are really cracking down on stray elephants. Here, we're at Condition Orange, the ongoing economic recovery is being hampered by a persistent failure to exist, Colin Powell is circulating photos of Osama bin Laden cleaning Saddam Hussein's swimming pool, and a new poll suggests that a majority of Americans think Condoleezza Rice is Uncle Ben's stepdaughter. Top that! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: profound silence Author: John [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 05:53:48 02/17/03 Mon > I was going to tell you guys >all about the amazing goings on over here, but if >you're not interested... Yes, I was only teasing. But it seems that when I go away the level of posts or emails always drops, even though I check online almost every day. I was wondering if that was coincidence, or what? Chiseling Laotian peasants???? By paying them more than anyone else here ever will, how is that? Merchants here pay them about $4 for a product they sell for about $25. I can then pay the merchant $25 and sell the same item for about $75 in the U.S. Instead, I want to pay the Laotian $20 and cut out the middleman. How is that bad? Because I can make a profit by hauling the stuff to a higher paying market I am evil? Try buying anything in America now that isn't the product of servere exploitation of foreign workers. Will I pay a Laotian craftsman the same wage a US textile worker makes? No. But when you factor how much my payment is in Laotian currency they are probably making more than the US worker. The average income in Laos is about $200/year. I can help them to make that in 1 month. You know I believe the capitalist system is inherently evil (perhaps we disagree here) but I live in a world dominated by that system. I would not purposely exploit someone, unless it was Jeff. Yesterday was Makha Bucha, a Buddhist holiday. Businessess were closed in observance and everyone went to the local temples in candlelit processions in the light of the full moon. It was very beautiful. Later I went to the beach with my friend Jarunee and we remembered the Loy Kratong festival we shared on the same spot in November. I went to see Aoy, but the shop where she worked was torn down. Some mutual friends said that she was still in town and I will try to track her down if she wants to see me. I don't know. I only hope she is okay. Mercifully, the days are going by slowly. Usually I'm looking at the calendar every day knowing that I'll have to go back soon. This trip is very relaxed. I'm running into a lot of my friends even before I can contact them. This is a small town and in many ways I know it better than Tucson. It feels like I'm home. Oh well, I hope to read more posts from everyone. I miss you all, even when you're pissed off. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: profound silence Author: Jeff [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:51:03 02/17/03 Mon >Instead, I want to pay the Laotian $20 and cut out the >middleman. How is that bad? Because I can make a >profit by hauling the stuff to a higher paying market >I am evil? No, your not evil, but you may be painting a target on your head. I wouldn't be surprised if you piss off some local merchants who find out some crazy, ballsy, capitalistic American white pig,(thats you, John) is going around paying premium wages to craftmen. Now there is a local middleman who is not happy and won't think twice about paying a price to have this greedy American busybody taken out on his next visit and set things right. I fully expect to never hear from John after one of his visits, his body mysteriously disappearing in the Thai jungles. I'm not saying John won't be successful, all I'm saying is I won't be surprised if he angers the local business community and gets his ass in some serious trouble. Yeah, Ken was/is upset with me, but in time all will be ok. We talked it over, I held myself accountable and apologized. Not to go into details but Ken and I have talked it through and not sweep it under the rug. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: profound silence Author: Ken [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:54:45 02/17/03 Mon Easy, John, I was only poking fun, but here goes. >Try buying anything in America now that >isn't the product of servere exploitation of foreign >workers. Not only do I try, I succeed in large measure. >Will I pay a Laotian craftsman the same wage >a US textile worker makes? A US textile worker makes minimum wage at Circle K ever since the factory shut down. >my payment is in Laotian currency they are >probably making more than the US worker. The average >income in Laos is about $200/year. I can help them to >make that in 1 month. Ain't nothin wrong with that >You know I believe the capitalist system is inherently >evil (perhaps we disagree here) but I live in a world >dominated by that system. That's because capitalism is the natural outgrowth of human behavior. It must be reined in here and there to prevent abuses, just as your right of free speech is hemmed in with certain proscriptions. But, in the same way, those who shout "fire" in a crowded movie theatre should be jailed, rather than used as poster children for the campaign to end free speech. I can use my freedom to lie and cheat, hurt other people, and spread hateful rhetoric. But that doesn't make free speech evil. It makes me evil. Free speech, free trade, they are like the knife which can be used by a surgeon to save lives or by a thug to end them. There is no viable replacement for either. To end capitalism is to remove all motivation for commerce of any kind. >Oh well, I hope to read more posts from everyone. I >miss you all, even when you're pissed off. Miss you, too, but I'm not pissed off [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Capitalism Evil? / DD Author: Curt [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:44:21 02/18/03 Tue Well stated, Ken. I agree that capitalism is the best system yet conceived, but it needs to be managed since human beings aren't fully civilized yet. By the way, on Sunday I saw Daredevil with my daughter Phoebe. It was excellent! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Capitalism Evil? / DD Author: Ken [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 00:35:25 02/19/03 Wed >Well stated, Ken. Thanks! >I agree that capitalism is the best system yet >conceived, but it needs to be >managed since human beings aren't fully civilized yet. I can't remember who said it, but "it is impossible to create a society that is better than its members." I can't say there will ever be a time when we will be "civilized" enough that other members of society will be better equipped or more motivated to look out for my best interests than I am. However, yes, capitalism represents freedom of choice, and all freedoms are tenable only to the extent they do not infringe on the rights of others. Actually, I was surprised to hear John use the E word. Evil Empire, Axis of Evil, these are not Johnlike expressions. Country music is evil, that is indisputable, but capitalism? >By the way, on Sunday I saw Daredevil with my daughter >Phoebe. It was excellent! I am out of the loop when it comes to superhero flicks, and superheroes in general. Who is Daredevil, anyway? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Capitalism Evil? / DD Author: Jeff [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:34:34 02/19/03 Wed >Actually, I was surprised to hear John use the E word. > Evil Empire, Axis of Evil, these are not Johnlike >expressions. Country music is evil, that is >indisputable, but capitalism? I agree Ken. Sounds more like sour grapes to me. If you can start with nothing and end up with something because of determination, guts, ambition and hard work...I hear too many stories of success using capitalism to make their own personal success. You got a woman who makes her own cookies and starts an empire/a man who made pizzas and is now nationally known/even some tech wienee who becomes a world power-almost.....it started because they made it happen and capitalism was the best environment to be a success. Seeing it as evil....sounds like a grudge. > >>By the way, on Sunday I saw Daredevil with my daughter >>Phoebe. It was excellent! > >I am out of the loop when it comes to superhero >flicks, and superheroes in general. Who is Daredevil, >anyway? Yes, DD kicked ASS!!! Daredevil is a hero who resides in Hell's Kitchen by day as blind attorney, by night as kickass/badass vigilante. He was exposed to radioactive chemicals as a boy, lost his sight, but gained radar like vision and increased in agility, heighten senses etc. He is known as Daredevil: The Man with No Fear. The comic has been around since the 60's created after Spiderman by Stan Lee. He wanted to create a hero who had a 'disability' but could overcome it and kick bad guy's asses and punch addicts and goons in the crotch. Excelsior!! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]