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Date Posted: 20:55:07 08/27/05 Sat
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: Araninda 's message, "Let�s MUTINY!!!. . .Inside" on 20:36:01 08/27/05 Sat

I can't say that I liked Mutiny, but it did serve some purpose. It showed the confusion that the Lifeline kiss had caused. The more complicated something is, the more Harm and Mac want to make it a non-issue. They both do this. Which is why the only thing that came of the kiss on the porch was a few lines about overstepping boundaries. They were feeling so much more than they expressed to each other or anyone else. We know this by the flashbacks that they both had in the finale where they remembered the kiss, and Harm's flashbacks when he was playing his guitar in Shifting Sands. In Mutiny, we saw into Mac's mind. We saw her blatantly question her love for Mic. That was a huge statement. While we didn't really see into Harm's mind, I believe that he was questioning his own honor, prompting him to apologize to her for kissing her when she's engaged to another. I believe that very kiss was what drove him to get back to be there for her for her wedding. He was trying his damnedest to do whatever would make her happy. He even told her that. And if it made her happy to marry someone else, his love for her would force him to stand by her side and watch her do just that.(NT)--Theresa, 18:36:47 08/18/05 Thu

The most important purposes that Mutiny had was to 1) show Harm in a "piratey shirt", and 2) state once and for all that "Harm was hung". (NT) -- Miz Chief (How you all forget these HarmyBoard tenets, is beyond me....), 17:53:24 08/19/05 Fri

Mutiny was one of the first episodes I ever saw. I came into JAG mid-stream - along about Lifeline. I really believed, as I watched Mutiny for the first time, that Mac was going to come to her senses and break her engagement. It seemed so clear from her dreams about the trial that she didn't love Mic the way she should have to marry him. I was dumbfounded when she went ahead with the wedding plans, to be honest. I think Mac's subconscious was rethinking things, but her conscious mind wouldn't allow her to break things off with Mic. (NT) -- Ann, 18:43:25 08/18/05 Thu

I thought it was fun to see all the characters playing different roles. Big Bud as a judge! LOL! I just watched this again a few weeks ago when it was on USA and I realized that Cmdr. Lindsey was in charge at the hearing toward the beginning of the ep. I never noticed that when I saw this ep before. I love how this ep highlighted the confusion in the "love triangle". We got to see Mac actually say she didn't know if she loved Mic, which we suspected due to her evasiveness to Harm's question in Lifeline. And I LOVE the awkwardness and tension in the scenes with H & M at the office. Classic Harm: his honor and his love for her caused him to deny his feelings and apologize.(NT)--JAG Junkie, 18:48:38 08/18/05 Thu

I disliked Mutiny the first time I saw it but only because it didn't pick up from where Lifeline left off. On subsequent viewings, I like it. There are some short Harm/Mac scenes and I do enjoy seeing the actors in other roles on the show. I'll certainly watch Mutiny over some of the other eppys that I really can't stand. (NT) -- Sarahsue, 18:49:00 08/18/05 Thu

I had a hard time with this episode the first time around. It was only after viewing it at least 3 times over the years that I have begun to see that massive amounts of info was either cut by TPTB or the story failed in trying to show the sub-conscious Mac vs the reality Mac. It had always struck me as unusual as to why Harm had such a minor role. For me, this episode was a turning point in the way that I viewed the show. It almost announced that Harm was a player but not THE player of the show. This was very said and also showed how another golden opportunity was missed by the writers and producers to showcase the Harm/Mac relationship.(NT)--Dorothy, 19:41:08 08/18/05 Thu

I agreed with you initially Dorothy about the statement that it looked like they were trying to make with the episode being so Harm lite. However, after I found out that David directed Lifeline, and thus had to be lite in the following episode, it made more sense. Otherwise I agree, Mutiny was very chopped up, and it could have been so good at showcasing Mac making a decision between the man she loved, and the man who loved her. (NT) -- Theresa, 19:45:16 08/18/05 Thu

I hated the episode and have never watched it after that first time. Unfortunately, I have a bit of a long memory. 1) It was Mic-centric and he was far from my favorite character. 2) The question to Mrs. MacKenzie about loving her husband, even though it supposedly showed Mac's ambivalence (making her one of the world's biggest dunces for continuing to go through with the farce) had absolutely nothing to do with the case and that made the question in her dream and the shown ambivalence so out of place. She had enough cause for questioning her relationship with Mic (see the kiss in Lifeline) that they didn't need this to show it. 3) What exactly was the point of the entire case in relation to JAG? This kind of relates to #2 above. The only thing we got out of it was too much Mic, not enough Harm (yes, I know he was doing post-production on the previous episode), Mac's supposed ambivalence (more on that tomorrow night when we discuss Adrift - let's just say she turned it on and off like a switch and leave it at that for now) and the horror of Mic killing Harm at the end. 4) After GOCP, the actors playing other characters was no longer a novelty. And at least GOCP had to do with Harm's back story. This episode (and Each Of Us Angels, which I didn't care for either, despite the eye candy) had zero to do with the characters we know and love, although this one has a slight leg up over EOUA in that it at least had to do with a court case, which kind of connects to JAG. A waste of screen time, IMO. (NT)--TracyJean, 19:43:33 08/18/05 Thu

I agree with you, TJ. But then I usually do. I thought of this episode as a "filler". It used up a week of air time, and meant almost nothing to anyone who would have watched it who didn't keep very close track of who was doing whom in the show. I think a much better way could have been found to show Mac questioning her decision to marry Mic. But then, by the time "Mutiny" aired, I had had enough of Mic and didn't want to watch him any more than necessary. (NT) -- NanaSue...never have been fond of the occasional "fantasy" episode. I prefer everyone be who they really are. (Yes I know they aren't "real" characters.), 20:07:54 08/18/05 Thu

I didnt dislike it . There were parts that were hard to watch but I think it was a necessary evil. It allowed us to see the inner conflict Mac was going mentally. Her reservations were coming out through her self conscious mind. A lot of times real life plays out that way. We all cant live in a fantasy world and it NOT have repercussions on our psyche. LOL (NT) -- Trish, 20:03:49 08/18/05 Thu

I thought the episode was interesting, though coming right after Lifeline made it appear lacklustre. There were a few things that came out, like Mac viewing Harm as her best friend and not Mic. Though many married people have best friends of the opposite sex, it does not usually work out well. I know it would be hard for me to swallow if my husband's best friend was another woman, or even another man. I'd hope it was me. But Harm was not only Mac's best friend, he was an extremely attractive co-worker whom Mic was already jealous of. What really interested me was the symbolism at the end. Was Mac feeling that by taking her away, Mic was delivering a death blow to Harm? She was certainly conflicted, and this episode would naturally have led to her breaking off the engagement, knowing she was in love with Harm. But this ep was just part of the series of episodes, showing Mac's growing discontent. Remember, she already knew she loved Harm, but throughout that time, she didn't think Harm would ever be ready. She tried to coax it out of him in LL, but neither one of them dared make that move when they had the chance. So now what is she going to do? She has loved Harm for a long time, but previously thought that it was hopeless. She loved Mic, and figured with him, she'd have a chance at the picket fence and kids. And suddenly, she is aware that Harm's feelings are strong, AND he kissed her. No wonder there was turmoil going on in her head.(NT)--Cece, 20:06:41 08/18/05 Thu

I agree Cece. I didn�t mind it either it served a purpose. Of course having less Mic would have been better. But it did show how Mac was conflicted. I think she knew she didn�t love Mic the way he loved her or the way she loved Harm. But is it better to have a known sure thing with Mic or take chance that Harm and her may someday work it out. She was scared of ending up alone with no one. At that point Harm was still with Renee. After her childhood being the way it was having a family was something extremely important to her even if it meant settling for less. If she hadn�t known Harm would she even realize it was less. I�m sure it happens a lot in real life but usually the person who you are truly in love with probably isn�t your best friend who you see everyday.(NT)--Hope, 21:40:39 08/18/05 Thu

But the problem was the Harm was under no obligation (engagement) to Renee. Why should he give up Renee if Mac was engaged to Mic and showed no signs of dumping him? Sorry, in this instance, it was up to Mac to make up her mind. Harm didn't need to sit around and wait for her, when she wouldn't do the same for him in Boomerang. (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:02:12 08/18/05 Thu

Sorry, I forgot half my post. And it was going to work out with Mic? Harm had a point in Adrift II - it probably would have been over within six months. She had no idea that it wouldn't work out with Harm because she wouldn't take a chance and it was up to her to do so at this point. (NT) -- TracyJean, 22:04:09 08/18/05 Thu

I hadn't looked at it this way but I agree with you 100%. Gives me some reasonable idea of the point of the episode now. (NT) -- Samgiz, 22:21:06 08/18/05 Thu

No Harm wasn�t under any obligation, never said he was. But if she had ended it with Mic she had no way of knowing if Harm would have left Renee. So she settled for Mic who at that point was a sure thing. She had no way of knowing if it would work out in the long run or not with Mic. Who really ever does know if it will last. They had lasted for over a year. I�m not saying I don�t wish she had called it off but can see how she was afraid of the uncertainty. As Mic said she didn�t want to be alone. That might not be a good reason but can be very scary especially for someone abandon as a child I would imagine.(NT)--Hope, 22:51:25 08/18/05 Thu

Isnt it amazing how we all saw the symbolism at the end, with Mic pulling the black drape over Harms face. We all had our own interpretation of what exactly was meant by that. Interesting! (NT) -- mkim, 23:36:09 08/18/05 Thu

What are the symbolic interpretations of Mic pulling the black drape over Harm's face? (NT) -- Clueless Araninda. . ., 23:45:51 08/18/05 Thu

I think we watched a very dark side of Mic here, he knows that Mac doesn't love him like she loves Harm and MIc try to do anything to mantain Mac in his life. MIc is not an inocent buddy he played hard but at the end he lose. (NT) -- Gra, 23:58:01 08/18/05 Thu

I always just thought it meant Mac was seeing the death of her current relationship with Harm-- it would not exist in the same way once she married Mic...so in effect Mic killed it. (NT) -- manette- I certainly don't think there were any other implications of Harm's lessening of importance to the show at this point., 00:12:58 08/19/05 Fri

Since what we saw of "Captain MacKenzie" in that segment was Mac's interpretation, she or her subconscious put Harm's face on that mutineer. To me, it was about her questioning the bargain she'd made: Take Mic, she loses Harm. It was part cold feet, part episode foreshadowing, and part post-"Lifeline" realization. She'd never thought of it that way before. (NT) -- Dancer - not sure that that makes sense, 00:49:44 08/19/05 Fri

I had just read some of the responses and saw that the black drape over Harm seemed to indicate some of us that it meant the 'death' of Harm and Mac's relationship.(I dont thin Harm could have hung around if she and Mic would have married) Dreams and Daydreams seemed to have alot of 'weight' in that show...I liked that. (NT) -- mkim didnt mean to make more of it than it was...just expressing an opinion., 02:00:08 08/19/05 Fri

I agree, mkim, that Harm's draped face at the end symbolized the death of H&M's relationship, especially after the fact of Lifeline and all that transpired between them. Mac needed to take a step back from what she felt for Harm and put things in perspective. I could never understand why Mic wanted someone who loved someone else. I think he always knew where he stood. (NT) -- my2kats, 10:54:30 08/19/05 Fri

I enjoy Mutiny for the Harm and Mac moments. As fans said before after the ep.that so much mutiny was going on in Mac's heart and Harm was the mutineer.LOL! (NT) -- JosieW, 21:48:45 08/18/05 Thu

1) I didnt dislike the episode and I have rewatched it, I fast forward through Mic(I always did) The reason I liked the ep is that it justified my feeling that Mac wasnt sure about her future with Mic. The closer it got to her wedding the more unhappy she became. Harm was adorable in the office talking about 'respect and wanting her to be happy' The look on his face was priceless when she asked'Even if I'm happy with Mic' It was obvious to me she wasnt happy at all. I dont think Harm regreted the kiss at all, though he wanted to be sure that what happened wouldnt come between them. If she had to marry Brumby he did'nt want to 'lose her'(smile) I think Mac was confused by the kiss and the whole discussion on the Admirals porch.I dont know if regret is what she felt. I think the whole dream sequence highlighted every concern she had about Mic. Whether or not she truly loved him, whether or not he was a truly honorable man, what would happen to Harm in her life if she were to allow Mic 'command' in her life.(Harm would have been 'over' for all intents and purposes) Face it, Mic was a bull in a china shop. He would have run right over her, IMHO. (NT)--mkim This was a great idea Araninda!, 22:10:55 08/18/05 Thu

For an episode with such strong opinions, I remember very little about it. I've seen it only once and on the USA version...I remember thinking oh what a waste when I saw Harm's face at the end. and I remember thinking how cute Mac looked in the old fashioned garb... Unfortunately, I remember little else about the ep- Can't even remember if I found it entertaining or boring... (NT) -- Chris K - who is absolutely useless in this discussion... LOL, 00:39:07 08/19/05 Fri

Personally, this is not one of my favorites, but I liked it :)! I thought the parallel stories were somewhat interesting! While the interactions between Harm and Mac were somewhat heartbroken, they were much much better than some S 10 episodes! Of course, if they could completely make Mic a background, I would have loved it much better! LOLOL (NT) -- Acer, 01:24:00 08/19/05 Fri

Well, I am going to be in the minority here. First let me say I wasn't a big fan of this episode mainly because I didn't like to see the actors is such different roles, But I think it was because I missed the symbolism the first time around. (Duh, takes me a while) I have heard the cast really enjoyed it because the it was something different which I can understand. Those polyester uniforms do get old. Now - I am one of the few that liked Mic. I think he gave the show an added boost. We all knew Harm and Mac were not going to get together so Harm had someone with as big an ego as his and Mac had someone to possibly be with since it wasn't going to be Harm, at least not yet. So you knew right away Mic and Harm were going to be at odds which I loved - gave Harm some competition. Yet Mic was willing to let them have their moment in LIfeline when he told Renee to let them have their minute because he would have her for a lifetime. I think he knew where he stood but he loved her and was willing to fight for her. Remember when she ask Harm what he would give up that Mic had give up his country and his career for her. Besides, I loved to listen to him talk - even though he wasn't from Austraila.(NT)--JBgirlygirl- getting booed and hissed I know., 14:18:15 08/19/05 Fri

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Replies:

Re: responses -- paulsonj, 17:00:53 03/20/06 Mon