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Date Posted: 14:19:41 06/23/05 Thu
Author: all
Subject: responses
In reply to: Dancer 's message, "One Big Boat. . .Inside" on 14:10:38 06/23/05 Thu

I rather liked that scene. However, I don't believe that Harm ever felt he had to possess someone to love them, or that he had to learn to love unconditionally. Having said that, I think that despite Mac's words, her sentiment and tone were soft. It was a moment between two women who loved Harm in different ways. I learn more about Harm through their conversation than I did about them. Harm was someone they felt protective towards. It was clear to me they both adored him, but knew him enough to let him have space. (NT) -- Cece, 13:54:42 06/19/05 Sun

Well, to tell you the truth, Mac's comment about Harm having to possess someone didn't make much sense to me. I've never seen Harm as having to "possess" someone, either. And I don't know why Mac would feel he had to. That was one of those comments that didn't ring true to me. (NT) -- Dancer, 14:00:45 06/19/05 Sun

Possession is a bit strong, but think about how he behaves with Sergei. Pushing him to live in the U.S. and giving him a hard time about his interest in Singer. Harm's possession of Sergei is what made Sergei lonely, because Sergei was living on Harm's terms not his own. (NT) -- Lucky, 14:24:59 06/19/05 Sun

I don't know if I would have used a term like "possess" but Harm can come on a strong when he loves someone. He can get over-protective on a grand scale, but sometimes has a few issues with the day to day follow-through. He would have moved mountains to get to Sergei, but once Sergei was safe he wasn't as much of a priority. I've always felt that Harm was a "hero" you'd want to have in a tight spot, but being his SO or close family member might leave you a little lonely. He made the 'grand gesture' with Mattie too, but then pretty much left her with Jen. (NT) -- CM>^.,.^< I think his heart was always in the right place, he just didn't get the details down on close relationships, 14:58:31 06/19/05 Sun

I took the conversation as more saying even though not physically in his life, meaning living with him he would still love her (Mattie). Mac was reassuring Mattie and maybe herself that even though he isn�t showing how much he would miss Mattie he still loved her. Maybe the possess was more in the physical sense of being in his life everyday than literally possess someone. (NT) -- Hope - not sure if this makes any sense, 14:38:39 06/19/05 Sun

Interesting Hope. Maybe she did mean "possess" as in letting go. You know, if you love someone, let her go (meaning Mattie in this case.) (NT) -- Cece, 15:51:11 06/19/05 Sun

ITA, I think that is what was meant. I think an example of what Mac was referring to is Harm in relation to his father. He now just loves his dad without focusing on his quest to find him. (NT) -- Sammy, 17:49:28 06/19/05 Sun

The way my shipper heart interpreted that scene is that Mac was vocalizing what SHE had learned about Harm over the years. That she finally understood that he loved her unconditionally, whether or not they ever started a true romantic relationship. (NT) -- JAG Junkie--and why she didn't do anything about that realization is beyond me. TPTB are the only explanation I can come up with., 14:57:35 06/19/05 Sun

I always thought that too. But at the time this took place after Retrial and in 4% we learn Mac thinks Harm has outgrown her and maybe even moved on. At this point she was still trying to deal with all the crap that happened with Webb and her endo. What I hate is how they dropped the ball after 4%. I think the first half of 10 was a nice lead up to 4% and we could have had a great second half but instead we got them trying to get an S11. (NT) -- Hope, 15:07:16 06/19/05 Sun

That's the way I took it, too. I also think Mac was reflecting on the other men she had been with, Chris, Dalton, Brumby, Webb (maybe even Farrow). They were men that HAD to possess Mac, tried to change her to what they wanted her to be, to have the relationship they wanted. They put conditions on their love (work for my law firm, love me because of what I can do/have sacrificed for you/will not abandon you). But all these men only loved Mac as a reflection of their need to possess her. I think Harm in H&F1 & II, as well as the flashbacks in 4% Solution, was give Mac reassurances that he would never leave her, and that he'd always be there, no matter what. Mac realized that there was no conditions on that, like she had with all the other men in her life. And allowing himself to be vulnerable to love Mattie and open himself up to being hurt, was what led him to be able to do that for Mac.-- Trivia Gal "I've learned that love's not a possession", 15:18:27 06/19/05 Sun

I agree, that the other men in Mac's life had wanted to possess her. And probably what Mac meant was that she had realized that Harm wasn't like that, but what she said was that *Harm* had learned he didn't need to possess people that he loved. I don't think Harm ever needed to "possess" his loved ones. He does have a protective streak a mile long, but I don't think that's a bad thing. So the Mac comment hit me wrong each time I saw it. Harm never tried to change Mac; he just wanted her to be happy. (NT) -- Ann, 16:18:38 06/19/05 Sun

Ha Ann..I think you got it! She wasn't saying that he ever needed to possess, just that he became aware of this with Mattie. (NT) -- Cece.. There's a subtle difference between thinking you should possess, and knowing that you don't have to., 18:27:16 06/19/05 Sun

The 'unconditional love' talk was one of the few things that gave me any hope at all in that ep. I think Mac was talking to Mattie and to herself. She had, in the past, wanted to believe that Mattie was a 'project' but she was admitting there that she understood that Mattie meant so much more than that. Mac couldnt tell herself anymore(when she was afraid to love himIMHO) that he wasnt capable of giving that much of himself over the long haul. (NT) -- mkim just checking in and soo glad to see this discussion, 16:17:24 06/19/05 Sun

I think the unconditional love thing was much more of a reflection of where they found themselves with each other. At the dining out when she said men just seem to pass through my life --except for you..will you always be there? His yes--spoke of unconditional, regardless of the state of their relationship love. I think they'd come to terms with the fact that whatever they called it and even if it never went anywhere beyond the friendship- they loved each other. She was still working out the emotional backlash of Webb and the endo-and he was waiting as long as it took for her to do that. (NT) -- manette-babbling, 17:35:52 06/19/05 Sun

That conversation did always bother me. Harm was "anti-possesive" to a fault Lots of great comments in this thread! (NT) -- psych9, 22:57:15 06/19/05 Sun

I liked the end of Mac and Mattie's conversation when Mac tells Mattie she wants to get to know her more. She was doing this because she knew Mattie would be a part of Harm's life and Mac, someday, eventually would be too (in the family sense). (NT) -- Taylor, 11:32:05 06/20/05 Mon

About Mac talking to Mattie. I think the writers did a poor job of writing. I can't put my finger on it but something could or should have been added to it. I thought Mattie knew pretty much what Harm thought about Mac.-- louise, 14:11:12 06/20/05 Mon

Yes, Harm had told her in the previous season that he loved Mac. So, given that Mattie knew that, I agree that there should have been something else in that scene. Mattie agreeing with Mac's unconditional love comments with a knowing smile, or something! Or maybe the conversation could have been approached a little differently. Or (inside) -- JAG Junkie, 19:02:23 06/20/05 Mon

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