VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 15:27:07 11/21/00 Tue
Author: Claire
Subject: re: religion
In reply to: josh* 's message, "Re: The theory of evoloution" on 19:14:30 11/20/00 Mon

Hola,
Wow, it's interesting to hear you talk about your religion as independent from Christianity as a religious group. I really respect the direction and confidence you have in it. I completely agree with your opinions about the divisions of Christianity, etc. I myself believe that some people use religion (any religion) as a sort of cop-out or as something to lean on when in hard times, or simply as a place to go and be part of a community. It sounds to me like you don't fit into those kind of groups.
Just as you feel that people get too caught up in the different denominations of Christianity, I feel like humans in general get too caught up in differences in religion. For the most part, Western religions are very similar and Eastern religions are very similar. Even further, there are so many fables and myths that are present and important in the practice of multiple religions. I don't think I will ever be able to fully understand why we insist on letting religious differences get in the way of our understandings of each other and of human nature. I say I am not a religious person because I don't necessarily believe all of any one religion, and most of all, can't find the need in myself for any one religion. I am, however, a faithful person. I have faith in myself and in humanity, however bad it seems, and not in a certain god or messiah, etc. I truly believe that all humans are connected simply by being all the same species, which causes us all to have the same or similar inherent needs and wants.
You also talked aout Christianity not being a chore, but a relationship. That is a very good way to look at Christianity as I know it. On the other hand, I feel like I can lead a very healthy, complete, satisfying life without a relationship with an unknown god or his son, or another form of those.(I don't mean a god I don't know is there, I mean a god I have never seen or met, etc.) I know a large part of religion is to convey a moral code to people by which to live and teach others, which I think is very important. But I can live a good and healthy life, teach others how to do that and how to educate themselves, on my own. It seems to me that religion is so often used in the wrong ways-- to make excuses for why things do or do not happen, for why they must believe one thing and not another, etc. Many people say or do things, and then say it was because "that's what the Bible told me to do or say."
I think people should take more responsibility for themselves than that, choose their own actions and deeds. I think religion, like you seem to know, should be based on personal faith and beliefs, not on what any one book or religios leader says. In addition, so much of religion is so political and beaurocratic that I can't find the necessity in following it.
Ok, on to your questions. Yes, I do believe in evolution as scientific fact. I respect your view of science as theory, as almost all of it cannot really be proven in ways that non-believers want to see. But I see no proof of god or my need for Christianity either, so... To me, evolution is fact because of everything I see and learn every day of my life. It seems so obvious to me when I look at humans and animals especially, but also plants, bacteria, whatever, how biologically similar we all are, or at least what biological traits we have in common. Not only that, but how intricate and specific our body systems are made to work and function. Have you ever gotten allergy shots or other vaccinations? Have you ever heard of those camouflage toads and frogs that sit on trees or leaves unseen? Have you ever noticed how there are millions of species of living things on earth, but that hundreds or thousands may just be types or variations of one family? All those things are due to evolution and natural selection. I get vaccines for allergies once a week. I used to have terrible allergies, but over time, my immune system got used to seeing those pathogens and learned how to fight them off. Those frogs and toads are evolved from other amphibians or reptiles that had not yet realized the value in hiding from predators, etc. Everything on earth as I see it is a different version of something else from its family. Humans are the furthest evolved of any species. As far as the big bang theory, I am not really sure that is necessarily true. To tell you the truth I don't think most paleontologists or astronomers believe that theory anymore, alhtough I'm not positive. I do, however, believe in the once existence of dinosaurs and other extinct species. Bones and fossils, etc, etc, have been being found since who knows when. I don't really think anyone would a) waste the time it might take to construct a fake dinosaur skeleton and bury it in the ground or b)waste their whole life studying the history and species of things that never existed. Just as maybe I don't know all the details of the proof of Christianity, I think you'd be surprised about the amount of knowledge the anthropology and paelentology world has about dinosaurs. Like I mentioned before, my sister's boyfriend is in Niger in the Sahara right now on a dig. That probably is not too convincing, but anyway, the last time that the team was there (led by the same man, Paul Sereno, who is the paleaentologist at the university of chicago, and has been in Nat'l Geographic and books from Discovery) they discovered Suchomimus, which, I think until this dig, might have been the newest species discovery. Blah blah blah I could go on forever probably, but just like animals, dinosaurs had the same kind of species-genus-family thing going on, except about 300 million years ago. Now humans, too, are dated as a species back to millions of years ago. I know earlier you mentioned the theories about the Creation being much longer than the bible's 6 days, but I have seens numbers on that (such numbers were brouht up in the scopes monkey trial of 1925) and I think it calls for the creation of man around 6000 BCE. (hahaha...fuzzy numbers?? jk, jk:) Anyway, if we can't take the first story in the bible literally, what else can't we take literally?
I certainly don't mean to attack your religion in any way. I think that religion is important to many people, which is why it exists and is such a large part of our culture. But like my friend Julia once tried to tell me about absolute truth, either there is a god or there isn't, I dont believe that. I think that God exists for those who need him and believe, and maybe something else or nothing exists for those who need other things. Religion to me is very personal and can't be tampered with by others...
Tell me what you think. --Claire


> Claire,
>
> I myself am not a very deeply religous person. I am a
> very devout follower of Christ, and wish to practice
> Christianity not be a Christian. There is a large
> difference. See one problem with America today is
> that these walls are being built up, and one large
> contributer of the seperation and walls is the
> different religions or rather denominations of
> Christianity. That is why I don't claim to be a
> Christian, but rather a follower of Christ. ALthough
> you will often here me refer to myself as Christian
> because it is an inherent trait of Christianity. See
> don't consider yourself not religious or religous
> because the thing you need to consider is where you
> are in your walk with Christ. NOt how much you know
> about the bible, or how often you go to church. That
> is relgion. See, Christianity is a relationship, not a
> chore. See I can see how your beliefs in biology and
> anthropology could lead you to believe in the theory
> of evoloution. The questions I want to ask you are do
> you believe in the theory of evoloution, do you
> believe in the big bang theory, and what is your
> defense of these arguments? Then I will respond with
> the info that I have. I like to see what other people
> have to say before I respond with my opinions. Peace.
> God Bless.
>
> Josh*
>
>
>
>
> > Please do forward us some of your questions or
> > discussion topics, etc. I am interested to hear what
> > else you have to say.
> > I agree that many people, tennagers especially, seem
> > to speak in the words of their idol politicians or in
> > the words of their opinionated parents. On the other
> > hand,there are a lot of kids I think that do know
> what
> > they are talking about and have done the research in
> > order to find out the facts. Perhaps if their views
> > match those of certain politicians a little too
> > closely we assume they don't actually know or believe
> > those things, but that they copy them to sounds
> smart.
> > We just have to remember not to jump to conclusions
> > about people we don't personally know, which jumps
> > back to the point about people calling you certain
> > derogatory names because of where you live. I
> > personally think that political correctness is a
> > virtue that we should not take loosely. Yes, it can
> be
> > incredibly touchy and picky sometimes, but generally
> > we should all do our best not to offend anyone, don't
> > you think? After all, this is the 21st century; it
> > seems like we all should have learned to live
> together
> > by now. But like you said, if we were all the same
> and
> > there was nothing for us to disagree over, where
> would
> > we be?
> > Anyway, what you had to say about evolution was
> really
> > interesting. I was at one point a more religious
> > person than I am now, and unlike yourself, it was
> > actually the study of biology and anthropology, etc
> > that made be doubt the creation stories and many
> other
> > parts of the Christian religion. Send along those
> > ideas or questions you have and we can all try to
> sort
> > them out.
> > --Claire

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.