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Date Posted: 13:53:28 11/27/00 Mon
Author: josh*
Subject: Thanksgiving Thoughts
In reply to: Claire 's message, "re: religion" on 15:27:07 11/21/00 Tue

Claire,

How is it going. I guess after this long break I will finally answer or respond to your comment/question. YOu don't want to know how many times I have read your comments. I have been thinking hard and I am prepared to respond to them now. So here we go.

First, I believe I am a follower of Christ. Which by definition makes me a Christian. I don't seperate myself from the religion of Christianity just the people that call themselves Christians, the ideaoligies that people, not God have presented, and of course the Church. I agree with your cop-out ideas, but I have to remind you that Christianity is a crutch. Sure, you will go, huh? Yeah it is a crutch, but not something that should be abused. See my crutch is something that I lean on constantly. I have since the day I became a Christian and will until the day I die. I cannot and will not do things on my own. I won't succeed. Plain and simple. Although people out there are using Christ, and you know what? I don't think that Christ is all that upset about it. I think that he wants people to come to him, and each time they come to him they learn a little more about him and eventually these people turn to Jesus wholeheartedly. I am one of those people. I honestly can say that I have turned wholeheartedly(sp) to Jesus Christ. Now, that does not mean that I am perfect. By no means. What I am saying is that I am willing to give my life to Christ for his purposes and his will. In fact, I have given my life to Christ. Not just my acceptance or my act of receiving him, but I have made my life His. I don't expect you to fully understand that, but I hope that it makes slight sense. Alright. To the issues at hand. Your comment on Eastern Religions and Western Religions being similar is in my mind not true at all. Why? I see mine as being absolute truth. I have that right to believe it. However, I do agree with your statement that people make the differences in differences in religion. Yes they do. I totally agree with you. I do not look at you as a bad person for not believing in what I believe in. However I grieve for you in my heart because you do not know what I know, you do not feel what I feel, and you probably don't see the world as I see it. You regarded we humans as being similar because we are the same species. I regard myself as being similar to you because we have the same opportunity. Christ died for us offering the opportunity for us to have salvation. Now, I am not one to shove this down your throat and make you believe this. SOme people are like this and I am not even close. Why? Because Christ represents freedom. He represents choice. I had the choice to believe in him. I had the choice to make the decision I made, and I most certainly had the choice to trust my life soul, mind, body, spirit, etc with him. Do you see what I am saying here? This is for everyone. Your comment on not believing because you feel you can do it on your own. I want to challenge and most people wouldn't do this. Or at least Christians. Go ahead try it on your own. Try to do things on your own. I am telling you without a doubt in my mind or anywhere else that you can't. Experiment with it. Christ will always be there when you fall. Now that is a little harsh I know, but if I didn't say it than I wouldn't be doing my duty as a Christian. Your comment on "the Bible told me so," and how people entrust their lives to a deity or a book. Yeah, I am a victim of that too. Why? Because my saviour is my guider and his instruction booklet is the Bible. Now when people do dumb stuff and then say, "God/Bible told me to." That is ridiculous. Actually that is downright retarted. There is no excuse for that. I think that is where a majority of your disliking for that phrase comes from.

Now, the idealogies that you expressed below are different then mine. See take the beginning of your paragraph and replace the theory of evoloution with God. That is how I believe. Do you know what the difference between you and me is? You can't put your faith that things were created in a singular God and I can't put it in man. That simple. There is no middle road I believe. Either you are or your aren't. I don't like these middle of the road standby people who wait on someone to tell them something or for someone to prove something to them. Get out on your own and discover something for your self. Now that kind of contradicts my possible future plans as I am looking into the field of ministry. For dinosaurs I am very questionable. I agree with you about people burying them and people inventing them and so on, but I just don't know. I don't know if I can trust in a scientist to tell me that the earth has been around for however long. Evoloution to me is not a fact. It will always remain a theory to me. What I want people to realize is I am not saying that evoloution is not true. It might be. What I want you to realize is that I believe it is a theory. See, if you really look at the world everything is a theory. Christianity is a theory. I just happen to believe in it. Just as people believe in other things. See, my reasoning for everything being a theory is this. You are looking at this screen right now and you see that the background is black, the writing is black and the place where you type is white. Why can't I call all of the poop? Huh. Because someone told us to call it that. Colors are theory. Why? No one as proved that yellow is yellow. Yellow is not a fact. Everyone has a system of beliefs. We all have different ones. I just choose not to believe what others believe. I guarantee you that some Christians who read this will be ticked off and be angry with me. Go ahead it is your right to be mad. Just as it is my right to write this stuff. Some of you will think I am a lunatic. I'm not. I just believe what I believe. Now that I am off on a tangent I will come back. The theory of evoloution is not fact to me because the man who thought of it denied it. I do not believe it is fact because God has not mentioned it in the Bible. He makes no reference to it, and I don't believe it could of happened. You said that I mentioned the 6 days in the beginning being longer than actual days we believe. They very well may have been. The truth of the mattter is we don't know how long those days were because we don't have a calendar back then. The Romans set the calendar that we are now familar with. Days could have been years and years could have been centuries and centuries could have been milleniums. To make it clear. I don't know. Your statement of if we can't believe the first story in the Bible and take it litereally then how can we take the rest of it that way. I don't believe the beginning of the Bible has anything to do with actually days but the litereal fact that God created this earth and then he created man. Which I take litereally. I think that about puts me at the end of this response. Sorry it is long. Hope it was interesting to hear my beliefs. I still have more. Let me leave people with one question. Where would you go if you were to die today? What would happen to your sould/spirit (whatever you choose to call it)? If you want to receive the gift that Christ has given freely than write me back or call me. I really would love to show you what I have found. It is amazing. It is the coolest thing I have ever felt, seen, and heard in my entire existence. Thanks for being open minded. Peace. God Bless.
Josh*
(843)884-8222


Hola,
> Wow, it's interesting to hear you talk about your
> religion as independent from Christianity as a
> religious group. I really respect the direction and
> confidence you have in it. I completely agree with
> your opinions about the divisions of Christianity,
> etc. I myself believe that some people use religion
> (any religion) as a sort of cop-out or as something to
> lean on when in hard times, or simply as a place to go
> and be part of a community. It sounds to me like you
> don't fit into those kind of groups.
> Just as you feel that people get too caught up in
> the different denominations of Christianity, I feel
> like humans in general get too caught up in
> differences in religion. For the most part, Western
> religions are very similar and Eastern religions are
> very similar. Even further, there are so many fables
> and myths that are present and important in the
> practice of multiple religions. I don't think I will
> ever be able to fully understand why we insist on
> letting religious differences get in the way of our
> understandings of each other and of human nature. I
> say I am not a religious person because I don't
> necessarily believe all of any one religion, and most
> of all, can't find the need in myself for any one
> religion. I am, however, a faithful person. I have
> faith in myself and in humanity, however bad it seems,
> and not in a certain god or messiah, etc. I truly
> believe that all humans are connected simply by being
> all the same species, which causes us all to have the
> same or similar inherent needs and wants.
> You also talked aout Christianity not being a chore,
> but a relationship. That is a very good way to look at
> Christianity as I know it. On the other hand, I feel
> like I can lead a very healthy, complete, satisfying
> life without a relationship with an unknown god or his
> son, or another form of those.(I don't mean a god I
> don't know is there, I mean a god I have never seen or
> met, etc.) I know a large part of religion is to
> convey a moral code to people by which to live and
> teach others, which I think is very important. But I
> can live a good and healthy life, teach others how to
> do that and how to educate themselves, on my own. It
> seems to me that religion is so often used in the
> wrong ways-- to make excuses for why things do or do
> not happen, for why they must believe one thing and
> not another, etc. Many people say or do things, and
> then say it was because "that's what the Bible told me
> to do or say."
> I think people should take more responsibility for
> themselves than that, choose their own actions and
> deeds. I think religion, like you seem to know, should
> be based on personal faith and beliefs, not on what
> any one book or religios leader says. In addition, so
> much of religion is so political and beaurocratic that
> I can't find the necessity in following it.
> Ok, on to your questions. Yes, I do believe in
> evolution as scientific fact. I respect your view of
> science as theory, as almost all of it cannot really
> be proven in ways that non-believers want to see. But
> I see no proof of god or my need for Christianity
> either, so... To me, evolution is fact because of
> everything I see and learn every day of my life. It
> seems so obvious to me when I look at humans and
> animals especially, but also plants, bacteria,
> whatever, how biologically similar we all are, or at
> least what biological traits we have in common. Not
> only that, but how intricate and specific our body
> systems are made to work and function. Have you ever
> gotten allergy shots or other vaccinations? Have you
> ever heard of those camouflage toads and frogs that
> sit on trees or leaves unseen? Have you ever noticed
> how there are millions of species of living things on
> earth, but that hundreds or thousands may just be
> types or variations of one family? All those things
> are due to evolution and natural selection. I get
> vaccines for allergies once a week. I used to have
> terrible allergies, but over time, my immune system
> got used to seeing those pathogens and learned how to
> fight them off. Those frogs and toads are evolved from
> other amphibians or reptiles that had not yet realized
> the value in hiding from predators, etc. Everything on
> earth as I see it is a different version of something
> else from its family. Humans are the furthest evolved
> of any species. As far as the big bang theory, I am
> not really sure that is necessarily true. To tell you
> the truth I don't think most paleontologists or
> astronomers believe that theory anymore, alhtough I'm
> not positive. I do, however, believe in the once
> existence of dinosaurs and other extinct species.
> Bones and fossils, etc, etc, have been being found
> since who knows when. I don't really think anyone
> would a) waste the time it might take to construct a
> fake dinosaur skeleton and bury it in the ground or
> b)waste their whole life studying the history and
> species of things that never existed. Just as maybe I
> don't know all the details of the proof of
> Christianity, I think you'd be surprised about the
> amount of knowledge the anthropology and paelentology
> world has about dinosaurs. Like I mentioned before, my
> sister's boyfriend is in Niger in the Sahara right now
> on a dig. That probably is not too convincing, but
> anyway, the last time that the team was there (led by
> the same man, Paul Sereno, who is the paleaentologist
> at the university of chicago, and has been in Nat'l
> Geographic and books from Discovery) they discovered
> Suchomimus, which, I think until this dig, might have
> been the newest species discovery. Blah blah blah I
> could go on forever probably, but just like animals,
> dinosaurs had the same kind of species-genus-family
> thing going on, except about 300 million years ago.
> Now humans, too, are dated as a species back to
> millions of years ago. I know earlier you mentioned
> the theories about the Creation being much longer than
> the bible's 6 days, but I have seens numbers on that
> (such numbers were brouht up in the scopes monkey
> trial of 1925) and I think it calls for the creation
> of man around 6000 BCE. (hahaha...fuzzy numbers?? jk,
> jk:) Anyway, if we can't take the first story in the
> bible literally, what else can't we take literally?
> I certainly don't mean to attack your religion in
> any way. I think that religion is important to many
> people, which is why it exists and is such a large
> part of our culture. But like my friend Julia once
> tried to tell me about absolute truth, either there is
> a god or there isn't, I dont believe that. I think
> that God exists for those who need him and believe,
> and maybe something else or nothing exists for those
> who need other things. Religion to me is very personal
> and can't be tampered with by others...
> Tell me what you think. --Claire
>
>
> > Claire,
> >
> > I myself am not a very deeply religous person. I am a
> > very devout follower of Christ, and wish to practice
> > Christianity not be a Christian. There is a large
> > difference. See one problem with America today is
> > that these walls are being built up, and one large
> > contributer of the seperation and walls is the
> > different religions or rather denominations of
> > Christianity. That is why I don't claim to be a
> > Christian, but rather a follower of Christ. ALthough
> > you will often here me refer to myself as Christian
> > because it is an inherent trait of Christianity. See
> > don't consider yourself not religious or religous
> > because the thing you need to consider is where you
> > are in your walk with Christ. NOt how much you know
> > about the bible, or how often you go to church. That
> > is relgion. See, Christianity is a relationship, not
> a
> > chore. See I can see how your beliefs in biology and
> > anthropology could lead you to believe in the theory
> > of evoloution. The questions I want to ask you are
> do
> > you believe in the theory of evoloution, do you
> > believe in the big bang theory, and what is your
> > defense of these arguments? Then I will respond with
> > the info that I have. I like to see what other people
> > have to say before I respond with my opinions. Peace.
> > God Bless.
> >
> > Josh*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Please do forward us some of your questions or
> > > discussion topics, etc. I am interested to hear
> what
> > > else you have to say.
> > > I agree that many people, tennagers especially,
> seem
> > > to speak in the words of their idol politicians or
> in
> > > the words of their opinionated parents. On the
> other
> > > hand,there are a lot of kids I think that do know
> > what
> > > they are talking about and have done the research
> in
> > > order to find out the facts. Perhaps if their views
> > > match those of certain politicians a little too
> > > closely we assume they don't actually know or
> believe
> > > those things, but that they copy them to sounds
> > smart.
> > > We just have to remember not to jump to conclusions
> > > about people we don't personally know, which jumps
> > > back to the point about people calling you certain
> > > derogatory names because of where you live. I
> > > personally think that political correctness is a
> > > virtue that we should not take loosely. Yes, it can
> > be
> > > incredibly touchy and picky sometimes, but
> generally
> > > we should all do our best not to offend anyone,
> don't
> > > you think? After all, this is the 21st century; it
> > > seems like we all should have learned to live
> > together
> > > by now. But like you said, if we were all the same
> > and
> > > there was nothing for us to disagree over, where
> > would
> > > we be?
> > > Anyway, what you had to say about evolution was
> > really
> > > interesting. I was at one point a more religious
> > > person than I am now, and unlike yourself, it was
> > > actually the study of biology and anthropology, etc
> > > that made be doubt the creation stories and many
> > other
> > > parts of the Christian religion. Send along those
> > > ideas or questions you have and we can all try to
> > sort
> > > them out.
> > > --Claire

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