Re: Question #1 -- The Apostolic Defender Board

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 16:26:15 10/07/02 Mon
Author: Nathan DuBois
Subject: Re: Question #1
In reply to: Pastor Reckart 's message, "Re: Question #1" on 10:30:12 10/01/02 Tue

>The Law is the old Covenant and it was to be replaced
>by the New Covenant (Jer 31:31, Acts 3:22-23).

Response: The two verses above are not one in the same as you would suppose. Hebrews 10 is the key as to when Jer 31 would be fulfilled.

Heb 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 then to wait UNTIL his enemies should be made a stool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them AFTER THOSE DAYS, says the Lord:

The days referred to are the days following Christ putting everything under His feet as said in verse 13.

Paul declared that time had not yet occured:
Heb 2:8putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. As it is, WE DO NOT YET SEE EVERYTHING IN SUBJECTION TO HIM.

And it WOULD NOT occur until the final parousia and the final resurrection of Daniel 12.
1 Cor 15:25 For he must reign UNTIL he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 THE LAST ENEMY TO BE DESTROYED IS DEATH 27 "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him. 28 WHEN all things are subjected to him, THEN the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one....
54 WHEN the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, THEN shall come to pass the saying that is written: "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY." 55 "O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

For some reason the victory over death and the "law" itself here are linked together. Because the victory over death, and the passing away of the law in 70 AD was synonymous.

If
>Jesus was not that Prophet and the New Covenant did
>not begin at Calvary, then there is no New Covenant,
>the Messiah has not come yet.
>Jesus pointed to the date, time, and event of the
>ushering in of the New Covenant when he instituted his
>Passover Memorial. He said: "This is the cup of the
>New Testament (Covenant), which is shed for many for
>the remission of sins" (Mat 26:28). If the blood of
>Jesus is the atonement and sanctification of the New
>Covenant, then remission of sins begins with Calvary
>and the Law ends. Jeuss said it was FINISHED when he
>spoke of the Law and his work of fulfillment.
>The blood of bulls, goats, lambs, and calves,
>officially ended at Calvary. If the Apostles believed
>the remission of sins remained with animal blood and
>practice of the Law until 70AD and the Law Covenant
>officiated until the destruction of the Temple,
>THEY NEVER TAUGHT IT!

Response:
Yes they did!!
First of all your timing of the law ending is wrong, unless YOU will submit that "heaven and earth" have passed away?
Matt 5:17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, TILL heaven and earth pass away, NOT AN IOTA, NOT A DOT, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Second, Christ taught to continue to do the law:
Matt 23:3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.

Thirdly, why would circumscision for the gentile be binding and burdensome in Acts 15 if the circumcised no longer had to follow the law?

Also, as PFP said, you ignore Hebrews 8:13 and it's implications. And Peter declared "heaven and earth" had not yet passed away. So Matt 5 was still applicable, and so was the law in it's fullness (not ONE jot, or iota!!)

The Word of God
>says the Law and the Prophets were until John, since
>then the Kingdom of God is preached and all men press
>into it (Luke 16:16). It is clear, that those who
>followed the Messiah were to depart from the
>priesthood, temple, and dominion of the law and enter
>into the Kingdom of God. Otherwise there is no sense
>in making the statement "the law was until John" when
>in fact men were to stay in it until 70AD and then
>AFTERWARD PRESS INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

Christ was the one who fulfilled the law as you say here.
But at the PAROUSIA, not the cross! as I showed Biblically above.

>If the "parousia" occured in 70AD I want to see it
>proved. So far I have not found a Preterist to do it.
> I want them to prove Mathew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7
>fully occured in 70AD. I want them to prove these
>text.

Christ said it would happen in His generation, when "some" there would "not taste death." etc
If that is not good enough, the biblical evidence we are posting will be ignored as well.

The Word of God
>says the Law was added because of transgressions
>"UNTIL" the seed should come to whom the promises were
>made and it was ordained in the hands of a mediator
>(Gal 3:19). When Preterst claim the law remained past
>Calvary and in full force and effect to 70AD they
>nullify the work of the Mediator on the Cross. They
>totally destroy the work of the Cross for faith
>salvation and keep salvation in the works of the Law.
>This kind of false doctrine is what Paul wrote the
>whole book of Galatians against, the Judaizers. The
>Law was added at Mt. Sinai and it was substracted at
>Mt. Calvary. There was absolutely NO SALVATION in any
>part or portion of the Law after Calvary. The
>Apostles were sent to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom
>to all nations (Matthew 24:14), NOT TO GO PREACH THE
>LAW COVENANT UNTIL 70AD and its alleged end. The
>Preterist would have us believe the Law and Grace
>co-existed side by side and two Covenants were in
>existence at the same time. How else can they have it,
>if the Law continues until 70AD?

No, we say the New Covenant was not in effect until death was defeated (1 Cor 15, Heb 2:8 and Heb 10).
They may have been under grace, but until the return of Christ, they remained in hades (John 14:3) and death still had it'ds power until the resurrection (1 Cor 15:51-56).

It is called the all ready but not yet time in which the gospel had to be spread throughout the land before the Old Covenant could come to an end.

I will continue later.

God Bless.
Nate

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Re: Question #1 -- Nathan DuBois, 08:59:25 10/08/02 Tue