| Subject: Re: dowsing |
Author:
The Druid
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Date Posted: 22/11/02 15:48:28
Author Host/IP: pc1-bele1-3-cust112.blfs.cable.ntl.com/213.107.100.112
In reply to:
Eleanor
's message, "Re: dowsing" on 20/11/02 19:08:29
Hi Eleanor,
>>A blind person would have their other senses heightened and would probably make very good Dowsers with rods. However you do need to see a crystal in order to read its answer.<<
If 'crystal' dowsing works then surely a blind person only has to ask their 'crystal' to show positive, negative etc and a witness or witnesses to take note of how the 'crystal' responds.
Since there is absolutely No scientific evidence that dowsing works how do you rule out involuntary movement of the hand whether you can see the crystal or not.
This is known as the Ideometer Effect.
William Carpenter in 1852 argued that muscular movement can be initiated by the mind independently of volition or emotions. We may not be aware of it, but suggestions can be made to the mind by others or by observations. Those suggestions can influence the mind and affect motor behaviour.
Scientific tests by American psychologist William
James, French chemist Michel Chevreul, English scientist Michael Faraday, and American psychologist
Ray Hyman have demonstrated that many phenomena attributed to spiritual or paranormal forces, or to mysterious "energies," are actually due to ideomotor action. Furthermore, these tests demonstrate that "honest, intelligent people can unconsciously engage in muscular activity that is consistent with their expectations". They also show that suggestions that can guide behaviour can be given by subtle clues.
>>So, once again, you need to be able to see the crystal
to counteract any involuntary movement.<<
Involuntary or unconscious movement means you are unaware of it so how could you counteract it??
All that would be needed here is to instruct the witness to how the crystal will respond, circular for yes, side to side for no etc.
>>Even the basic answers of yes or no are different for individual dowsers. Would you rather we leave it to
The interpretation of the witness who may just end up making a wild guess?
I am certain that this would be even less accurate particularly as the witnesses may have helped compile the questions in the first place.<<
What you seem to be implying here is that the answers are collusion between the dowser and the witness.
The witness should be clearly instructed as to what way the 'crystal' will respond to yes/no etc, and not have to rely on the dowser to confirm an answer.
Also, anyone who had a hand in compiling the questions Should Not be allowed to participate in the experiment as a witness.
What are you saying here?? It’s nothing to do with 'spirits' but that your crystal possesses an intelligence of its own?
>>No. What I am saying is that if there is anything to communicate with it would be rude not to acknowledge them whilst talking to them.<<
If you can’t be sure your communicating with anything as the above comments suggests whom do you think is moving the 'crystal'?
The problem with 'crystal' dowsing and any other method that relies on a yes/no answering system is that everybody can achieve a 50% success rate.
Given that the odds using this method are pretty much 50/50 why do the calculations regarding the Derby Gaol experiment fail to take into consideration what percentage of answers could have been predicted by ‘chance’?
>>This is why we never use a single Dowser who could be making up anything. At least with a crystal there is some visible sign of an answer if only an involuntary movement, unlike a Medium who may just feel something and cannot work in tandem with another Medium.<<
So you concede that a single dowser could be making up anything.
Isn't it also conceivable that 2 0r 3 people could be simply making it up also??
Just because 3 people get the same result to a question doesn’t mean all 3 aren’t making it up.
Considering they only have two basic answers to work with getting one or two questions out of ten the same is not difficult.
As for mediums, if two dowsers can communicate with the same 'spirit' as your experiment suggests surely two spiritualist mediums could do the same.
I have been corresponding with Colin Fry lately on another matter but I shall pose this question to him and post his reply for you.
Regards,
Druid.
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