Raw Water Pump Issue -- MOA

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Date Posted: - Sunday - 07/ 3/11 - 2:42pm
Author: Randall, Murre, M31
Subject: Raw Water Pump Issue

Old raw water pump weeped a small amount of oil from the weep hole in the base. Replaced (for various reasons, including this) last November while in San Diego with new raw water pump.

NOW (i.e. as of last two engine runs) new raw water pump is weeping oil from weep hole in the base.

See picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/63439824@N04/5898131422/in/photostream

Indications? Remedies?

Thanks (again) in advance,

RR

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Replies:

[> Weeping Pump -- Mark AEOLUS M#!, - Sunday - 07/ 3/11 - 6:19pm

To start with NICE job on the exhaust Randall. Considering your location it looks great! Goes without saying, keep an eye on that steel reinforced hose. I think I'll add a siphon.
The raw water pump problem is something I haven't encountered in 35 yrs with my 4.107, water but never oil? You have the same G-65 pump as I, and a quick glance at the "parts book" and the "workshop manual" both show the "other" pump used. That is, a 180* turn instead of straight through. But as you might have guessed it shows a "O" ring and a seal behind the cam plate.
The workshop manual says; the rubber seal in the impeller housing,the "O" ring, and the rubber seal in the bearing housing can be removed after a "suitable press" is used to remove the impeller shaft.
The fact that your pump is fairly new makes me wonder why it's leaking so soon? I'm sure other will chime in with more knowledge. Mark

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[> I checked the service manual and can't find an oil seal -- Paul M31 #106 NJ, - Sunday - 07/ 3/11 - 11:21pm

The one seal that is clearly part of the pump assembly is the one preventing raw water from seeping towards the engine... I see no seal preventing some oil from entering the weephole chamber.

The pump shaft is an independent, slotted fitting into a receiver in the heavy duty injection pump gear drive, which in turn is driven directly off the main timing gear assembly. The raw water pump is mounted on the engine with four bolts, with its drive shaft (ending in a female flathead screwdriver slot)inserted into a hole in the massive injection pump gear where it links up with a male "flathead screwdriver end). The mechanical fit seems fairly loose and I see no special seal to prevent oil from following the raw water pump shaft towards weeping hole chamber.

I have the schematics and exploded views of the whole assembly - raw water pump as well as injector pump - and I can certainly send it to someone's email if that would help (pdf file).

Bottom line, I would not worry about it too much for now, but keep an eye on any increase in weeping... but more so about any grinding or thumping noise coming from behind the raw water pump. There are two massive bearings behind there and I guess if these are failing, some funny things could happen.

An old mechanic's trick it to take a long screwdriver and put the metal end on the area you're monitoring and the tip of the handle "in your ear", as if you are trying to block sound in that ear with the handle. You will be amazed (scared?) by how much you can hear like that - it is best for establishing "change" more so than diagnosing anything at first hand. Listen to the rumble and remember how it sounds... later, that rumble should be about the same (at the same rpms) - if there is an addition of a new sound, like a distinct ricketytick or a thump, you know something's going on in there.

Another trick is to check the weeping oil/fluid for metal - stick a small magnet in the strean and check it for ittl filings.

Let me know if I can be of any help at all...

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[> Oops - went to the Parts List and there IS a seal on the oil side -- Paul M31 #106 NJ, - Monday - 07/ 4/11 - 12:03am

There are two seals with the telltale hole in between.

The water seal is listed as "mechanical seal" and is quite robust - sits right behind the impeller retaining ring. The oil side "seal" looks wore like some sort of O-ring and sits right in front of the rear ball bearing - The weep hole would see bothoil or water passing their respective seals.

I guess the pump housing becomes integral with the gear cover and any oil splashing around in there and wetting the pump shaft would be stopped from entering the weephole chamber by the O ring (though the picture shows it as a square "seal".

See this attachment:

#14 is the "seal" that would stop oil from entering the weephole area; the water seal is #4 and listed as "Mech Seal"

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[> Thanks... -- Randall, Murre, M31, - Monday - 07/ 4/11 - 4:21pm

Thanks for the quick and detailed feedback, gentlemen. And especially the diagram.

I think I will wait till arrival in Tahiti to worry about this one.

RR

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[> raw water diagram -- Mark Aeolus M31, - Tuesday - 07/ 5/11 - 4:12pm

Randall, per one of your old post I've encluded the page from the 1967 parts book I have for the 4.107 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/rawwaterpump.jpg/D
Hope it works, if you find it useful and need the parts # let me know. Mark

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problem might be the gasket of the timing case cover -- Ardian M31 Taygeta #98, - Wednesday - 07/13/11 - 9:44am

The shaft that rotates the water pump is the same shaft that rotates the fuel pump through fuel pump gear. The whole gear system is full time lubricated and goes like this :- Crankshaft gear moves the idler gear, idler gear moves fuel pump gear. They are inside the timing case cover that we can see. So the oil that gets in the water pump comes from the shaft goes through the 2 waterpump ballbearings and comes out of the holes where you can see it. So it might be the gasket that let the oil to get in the water pump case. Not a big deal until the water seal in the pump is ok, if the water go through to the other side where are the holes might end up in the engine and that will be realy bad thing.

Fair winds,

Ardian

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