I'm not convinced he has more to his game. As I say - different skills, but Lukic definitely better under the press, better on the ball, and better at setting the tempo. All of those are things that have been really important to us at the moment. Looking at their pre Fulham careers, Lukic certainly has the better pedigree, albeit he's 18 months older -- SW6.doc

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Date Posted: Monday, October 14, 04:11:16pm
Author: Same Old Story
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 90.241.124.131
Subject: I'm not convinced he has more to his game. As I say - different skills, but Lukic definitely better under the press, better on the ball, and better at setting the tempo. All of those are things that have been really important to us at the moment. Looking at their pre Fulham careers, Lukic certainly has the better pedigree, albeit he's 18 months older
In reply to: Juana Aorta 's message, "Like Lukic did, Berge may need time to develop his role in the team. I think he has more to his game than Lukic, but as you say he might not be playing to full capacity for a while. But then again he won't unless he gets games." on Monday, October 14, 03:58:26pm

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Not sure its true that Lukic is "better under the press, better on the ball, and better at setting the tempo." If you look at their career numbers (inside) they touch the ball & receive it a similar amount & on the ball they are nearly identical in: (a) passing attempts & completions (slight edge to Berge, esp. long passing); (b) carries (slight edge to Berge, esp. progressive distance & take-ons); & (c) keeping the ball (Berge tackled & miscontrols less, Lukic dispossessed less). -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 05:18:44pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
- I use those stats because I think they best show who is good "under the press, on the ball & setting tempo", i.e. who can control the ball well, make both safe sideways & incisive forward passes, carry the ball when there is no one to pass to, & is hard to tackle or push off the ball. Across all stats relevant to that they are very close on both %age & per/90 bases (with Berge typically having a very slight edge). I think that's no accident. 2 players per position being the clear mantra. (NT) -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 05:35:28pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
  - Berge's pedigree is 2 relegations from the premier league, whilst Lukic's is 150 games at a mid table serie A side including european campaigns. He's clearly got the stronger pedigree. As for your stats, optically, we're clearly worse this season when Lukic is off the field. Our results are worse, as well. Too small a sample size? Quite possibly. But it's the only sample size we've got at present (NT) -- Same Old Story, Monday, October 14, 06:03:05pm (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
    - Not sure what the "two relegations" thing is about, especially if we compare quality at mid-table Serie A vs lower-table Prem. But on core "pedigree metrics": Berge 22 European games, inc 6 Champions League when named in a "best of" champions league team; Lukic 7 European, 1 Champions League. Lukic 52 appearances for 35th ranked national team at age 28, Verge 50 for 47th ranked team at age 26. These two are so similar its hilarious to try to nitpick between them, which is my point. (NT) -- eganonoa, Monday, October 14, 11:56:45pm (NoHost/106.255.112.8)
      - He's been relegated with both Sheff Utd and Burnley. Its not difficult to understand. Even for you. (NT) -- Same Old Story, Tuesday, October 15, 09:30:45am (NoHost/90.241.124.131)
  - On your core point that we're worse when Lukic is off the field, its a bit too early to make such judgments. He's played 7, been subbed 4 times, but only twice before the 83rd minute. So really it's only two instances, and in one of those games we won 3-1, conceding no more goals and scoring one. And we can't exactly use the League Cup as those we wholesale changes and it's not as if we were radically transformed when he came on. Reality is Berge is likely about par with Lukic. (NT) -- eganonoa, Tuesday, October 15, 12:09:25am (NoHost/106.255.112.8)

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