Re: Who Is To Blame in "Empty Spaces" (7.19)? -- ATPo Discussion Forum

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Date Posted: 15:01:28 02/12/08 Tue
Author: manwitch
Subject: Re: Who Is To Blame in "Empty Spaces" (7.19)?
In reply to: Trent 's message, "Who Is To Blame in "Empty Spaces" (7.19)?" on 19:27:41 02/05/08 Tue

I don't think its a double standard really. Buffy is the protagonist. Rona is not. Kennedy is not. Faith is not. Giles is not. Obviously the hearts of the audience will more likely be with the protagonist.

What has not been mentioned in Trents piece or in Sophists response is the role of Spike. Spike is UTTERLY LOYAL to Buffy, and its not because he's whipped. Spike placed his belief in Buffy, a religious level belief in her, in the vastly underrated episode "Showtime." He had no reason to be anything but broken. But he believed in spite of the efforts of the first. And his belief was vindicated. She came for him. "Believe it," she said. Without Spike's belief and unwavering loyalty, Buffy crumbles in the face of the rebellion. I would hate to credit the rebellion with Buffy's ultimate success. I have no problem giving a nod to spike. Perhaps both were necessary. But again, its not a story about the positive aspects of whiny bitching frightened complainers. It is a story, whether the atheists like to admit it or not, of belief, where to place it, how to hold on to it in this godless world.

So who's to blame? Maybe everyone. But it seems to me that Spike and Buffy fix the problem. As I believe Sophist opined, the rebellion offers very little by way of solution. Given the portrayal of Spike at the end of that episode, and its significance, I find it hard to believe that we are supposed to have even a passing identification with the Ronas and Kennedy's and Xanders of the world. That's why I like Turok-hans. You can be as scared as you want. But they're coming. If you think being scared and pouting will help, well step on up.

Buffy's success in response to Spike and the rebels immediate failure suggest again that we are not intended to view the sides equally. Of course Buffy is the one who must learn that leadership, holding power, is not the answer to spiritual problems. One could argue the others are not fit for such enlightenment.

I would except Dawn from any diatribe I administered to the members of the rebellion. I think Dawn's words are very ambiguous, and it has never been clear to me what her intent was there. I know that she articulates the solution to the problem, but I guess I don't believe her character could have known that. But she has a quality of giving Buffy something rather than kicking her out in that scene. Maybe others don't feel that way. I don't resent Dawn. And its not just a major vs minor character thing, because Xander is as irritating as ever at that moment.

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Replies:

Excellent point (as usual). I agree. (NT) -- Sophist, 17:27:04 02/12/08 Tue
A Problem with Atheists? -- Sunshine, 09:58:12 02/13/08 Wed
- Some of my best friends are atheists -- manwitch, 14:13:07 02/14/08 Thu
  - No Offense taken -- Sunshine, 14:45:18 02/14/08 Thu
    - Re: No Offense taken -- manwitch, 10:27:53 02/15/08 Fri
      - Are the Scoobies mentally ill? -- Sunshine, 12:01:05 02/15/08 Fri
      - Re: motivations -- Rich, 13:28:48 02/15/08 Fri
        Google stock market futures prices -- Cady (Google stock market futures prices), 21:57:33 03/18/10 Thu
Faith -- Sophist, 10:03:40 02/13/08 Wed
- Re: Faith - a political parallel & some comments -- Rich, 14:25:58 02/13/08 Wed
  - Re: agendsa ? agendas !! (NT) -- Rich, 14:27:18 02/13/08 Wed
- Re: Faith - a frivolous observation ? -- Rich, 14:34:20 02/13/08 Wed
  - Or, as Wood said, "I think I've had my share, thanks." (NT) -- Sophist, 17:10:40 02/13/08 Wed
Double Standard -- Trent, 18:30:06 03/04/08 Tue
- Re: Double Standard -- Sunshine, 09:36:07 03/05/08 Wed
- Re: Double Standard - Correction -- Sunshine, 09:49:34 03/06/08 Thu
- Double Standard Conflatus -- manwitch, 07:45:09 03/08/08 Sat
  - Just to add.... -- Sophist, 16:13:00 03/08/08 Sat
  - HYPOCRITES -- Trent, 19:35:48 01/16/10 Sat