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Date Posted: 11:54:13 09/21/12 Fri
Author: Robert
Author Host/IP: pool-98-116-59-97.nycmny.fios.verizon.net / 98.116.59.97
Subject: I agree...
In reply to: SV 's message, "At what point did the Buffy story end for you?" on 17:44:47 09/20/12 Thu

I always felt The Gift was the perfect ending. I know a lot of folks didn't like season 5 due to many of the plot holes, as well as a general dislike of the whiny Dawn character, but in many ways I felt season 5 was the best because it brought out the best of Buffy the character. This was the Buffy I love to remember - heroic, passionate, and willing to sacrifice even herself for both her sister and the world. Plus Glory was my absolute favorite big bad of the entire series.

Season 6 was, in my opinion, the most smartly written season yet the least entertaining/most painful to watch. Psychologically season 6 was just a dark reflection of season 5 without the "Big Bad" to distract the Scoobies from their real problems. Essentially all of the characters' issues in season 5 went unresolved at the time (e.g. Tara's concern over Willow's growing magical power, Giles' desire to return to England, Dawn's kleptomania, etc.) due to a big fat distraction named Glory. Hard to worry about personal problems when a hell-goddess intends on destroying the world. Yet in season 6, other than the nerd trio there were no crises to speak of, so all of the unresolved issues from season 5 reared their ugly head. As I said, smartly written, yet not entertaining as none of us enjoys watching our favorite characters self-destruct, most especially Buffy who went from sacrificing herself to save the world to boinking Spike in a condemned building six months later.

Season 7 started out strong, but I wished that Whedon had waited to start Firefly until after Buffy was over, because he was clearly too distracted to come up with a better ending for Buffy (as well as an alternative to the lackluster ending for Angel season 4, which ran contemporaneously to Buffy's season 7). The idea of fighting the First Evil sounded nice on paper, until you realized that the First's plan made absolutely no sense (i.e., let's sit on our hands and wait to unleash the uber-vamp army until the slayer can come up with a way to fight it by unleashing her own army of slayers, etc.).

So yes, for all of it's flaws I felt Season 5 was the "true" finale of Buffy. Though I often wish that Joss had somehow moved the evil Willow storyline from season 6 to season 4 - she would have made a much more convincing supervillain than Adam, and it would have tied in the main season 4 theme of the Scoobies drifting apart, only to come together at the end. My fantasy thought for season 4 was to have Willow's magic addiction start during her depression after Oz's departure (skipping the Tara storyline altogether, though I do love Willow/Tara), then Oz gets captured and killed by Prof Walsh after coming back to Sunnydale and finally reconciling with Willow. Willow goes off the deep end and delves into the black magic, kills Walsh and then decides to destroy all of the Initiative including Riley. Then after her recovery end the series with season 5, skipping the seasons 6 and 7 altogether (not to mention the comics, which seem to be intent on destroying every single character in the Buffyverse even more than the last two seasons of the series did).

Anyway, that's my two cents...

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[> [> Re: I agree... -- chuckit25, 11:16:11 09/22/12 Sat (cpe-76-84-128-83.neb.res.rr.com/76.84.128.83)

Those 2 cents are shiny...I find myself going through each of the character's journeys, and discover quite the “wish list,”

I find your interpretation of season 6 quite generous and sensitive. I found “everyone addicted/obsessed/depressed,” all at the same time as much fun as a nurse in a prison of flu victims, hurling at both ends. And when ideas ran out, let’s show shirtless Spike. Which was the point. But, seriously, I wouldn’t pay to see it for months on end. I never had seen “shame and blame” laid on with a back hoe, and has actually never recovered, on what had been lovingly rolled and layered in a fairy tale “pastry surprise.” But then, I find Freud and thus, existentialism bankrupt, too.

Season 4 tried to show more of “the real world,” and “Joss was doing ATS,” plus no budget. The backstage story from now on becomes part of the narrative. Those not knowing it see a completely different and deeply linear story. That’s the Dealio, peeps.

Dawn’s arrival changed the game into dual worlds of the psychological world and that of “dirt.” Buffy became an avatar to Dawn, the real girl and thus, the journey offered was no longer in the nature of the introvert’s experience within and without. The nature of “duality” thus changed in POV ( Thus, half the story is always missing, which is given POV by merely flipping over the narrative onto a character opposite). I found the greatest satisfaction in the paradox—I don’t think anyone thinks Surprise/Innocence and Becoming didn’t hold paradox, for Buffy, (and, therefore Angel), for example, and that is what the mythical “union of opposites” looks like in solution/dissolution, with death as the overarching metaphor, itself a paradox of endings/beginnings. So, “existentialism/atheism as the agenda” is just a bit bankrupt to me.

The use of characters also changed. Cordy’s destabilization was (funny) and brave in dealing with the realities of self, and self in the world; I wish she hadn’t gone to ATS even if Anya was funny, funny. However, Anya suffered no real consequence and she was turned into meat as “that just happens,” (when the real myth of Eurydice and Orpheus is he actually gets the girl—but Joss wanted Xander/himself to “win” Buffy, his own avatar: the 14 year old girl as “female principle” and he did in season eight.

I wish I had seen your story line, as well, as the story structure would have better knit. Even the use of Oz, the "wolf" is important to the story line of both Angel and Buffy, as the Hart; while Oz also represented something very fundamental in the “Turtle” (his laconic introversion and his van) that are specific to Buffy herself e.g. what holds up the world in one myth: Turtles: “all the way down.” Hee hee. Which they dragged into season 8 anyway. But I have no idea if Oz was indeed one of the wolves. Like real life, I guess we don’t know how things go, but the beauty of a fiction means a narrative can actually include these “side trips,” that give the back story to action v reaction, especially having the separate arcs and books available in comics that may not support an entire series spin off. (I do think Spike and Faith would have worked, BTW. They seem “same,” but actually are opposites, as well, but in protecting kids, not having them—an interesting “spiritual” journey re independence/co dependence and finding place. Oh, well).

So agree also on the First Evil. I thought it was “desire,”—inclusive of “ the sex is evil” trope, and the idea of wanting/fearing motherhood, not just “father,”—as desire is the basis of will, i.e. accepting how things are to actually “create” choice and, therefore, duality, for “free will,” i.e. the “basis” of existentialism. And it turns out it was “fear,.”whatever the face. Which, should have been good, but the “power” of it…not so much. Waxing and waning ubervamp strength had more to do with how brittle her “steel” was. So…” Buffy” still has to kill Daddy?” (scoff).

I think season 8 did a great job on showing the “loop” of timelines, the Guardian who died I think was also Willow, who also died on the other end in Fray. However, I hate it. Buffy murders her best friend. There was no reason to have to “go back to the present” as there were thousands of slayers to take on “her duty.” She should have helped Fray v Harth. Just like the counselor, who actually knew “the deal”—including don’t go down into the basement—she did nothing. Great hero, great feminism, great mercy,, great wisdom being shared. Not. And then integration of a roofied “normal” and “robot” without a glitch…just wow….creamy sewage on rye. Yummmm.

Season 5, with Joss in 4 and 5t, especially with what you have adapted, with a better handling of psychological vs “dirt” : more like Connor, who tends to “disappear” a lot, for extremely good reason, as THE STORY is the heroic struggle within to deal with inner and exterior world information/experience/imagination.

Be well
chuckit25


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