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Subject: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Tiger81 [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 22:18:06 03/16/24 Sat Surprised there has been no commentary on this. Tigers led wire-to-wire and thumped the Lions on their home court. Kaitlyn Chen won her third straight ILT MVP trophy, Maddie St.Rose led Princeton with 18 points, and Ellie Mitchell had yet another double-double. (I still am astounded she was not named First Team All-Ivy.) The Tiger D was active and aggressive and held Columbia nearly 20 points below their average. Coach Berube had her team ready to play and they clearly wanted the rubber match against the Lions and winning it in Levien, where they dropped their only Ivy tilt this season in a disappointing performance, must have added extra motivation. Congrats to Columbia and Coach Griffith on an outstanding season. I’m looking forward to seeing the Tigers play again next week. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: The Mountain Lion [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:20:43 03/16/24 Sat Congratulations to the Princeton Women's Basketball Team for its 75-58 victory over Columbia this evening. Congratulations also to the Columbia Women's Basketball Team for finishing the regular season with a outstanding record of 23-6 and as co-Ivy League Champions with Princeton. I do agree with all of Coach Griffith's remarks in her post-game press conference. Certainly Columbia deserves to be in the NCAA Tournament, and if, for the second consecutive year, the Lions do not receive an NCAA bid due to the application of the NET, then, in my opinion, the whole selection process needs to be re-examined by the NCAA. Clearly, the NET discriminates against every IVY League Team that is unable to schedule top 25 schools in Pre-Conference Games. Also, as noted by several persons last week, there is an open question whether the Ivy League AD's fully understand and approve the application of the NET as the basis for determining seedings in the Ivy League Tournament. Not just Columbia, but every Ivy League Team, will be watching to see if the NCAA Selection Committee extends a tournament bid to Columbia. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: An Impressive Presentation by My Girlfriend Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:46:25 03/16/24 Sat I just watched Coach Griffith's post-game press conference message to the NCAA selection committee on the GoColumbiaLions website. I thought that she was composed, measured and articulate. She made as cogent a pitch as was possible. I presume the Columbia staff has sent that short video to whomever they can reach close to the committee. Coach Griffith's argument was at turns data-driven, results-oriented and logic-based. But her best turn might have been the finale, which I would paraphrase as, "You talk about wanting to grow the game. That means developing mid-major programs, not inviting a 15-win, seventh place team from the SEC. We're the only mid-major on the bubble. If you want to live up to your premise of growing the game, we're it." No professor at Columbia Law School could have done better. Besides the fact she was reading from a piece of paper, her sales pitch was so well organized that clearly she had thought at some time before the game, "I've got to have a one-minute pitch prepared, rehearsed and ready to go in case we lose." Not a scenario for which anybody wants to prepare, but that's what professionals do: prepare for bad outcomes. I think that, if Columbia were the first team out according to the prognosticators such as Charlie Creme, Joe Lunardi and Jerry Palm, Coach Griffith's argument might tip the balance. Being the fourth team out and losing by 17 might be a bridge too far. I hope that the Lions win the WNIT. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:03:03 03/17/24 Sun Coach Griffith's comments were absolutely correct. Unfortunately I do not believe the NCAA folks lie awake at night wondering about whether they are treating Columbia fairly, or bigger picture, how to get more mid majors into the tournament at the expense of those big conference teams whose coaches all have heavily incentivized contracts. The first rule of a mutual protection society is to protect the society, lest it turn on you. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Ghost [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:22:50 03/17/24 Sun In all fairness, despite all the good things Columbia did this year, they got blown out AT HOME with an NCAA bid on the line. Princeton, likely a 14 seed, showed the committee (if they were watching) the distance between a 14 seed and a possible at large. I hope Columbia gets the nod but they badly missed the opportunity they'd been hoping for all year long. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:54:00 03/17/24 Sun After the extended prior discussion, Ghost’s insistence on ignoring/dismissing Charley Creme is curious, at best. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Ghost [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:17:42 03/17/24 Sun He's a sportswriter, with ZERO input to the committee. Why do you put stock in what he says? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:02:20 03/17/24 Sun Because he’s habitually correct. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:48:14 03/17/24 Sun The idea that Princeton is a "likely 14 seed" is nuts. We can revisit after the seeds are announced and you can correct me if warranted. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Ghost [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:20:36 03/17/24 Sun They may go as high as 10 but that's still the 40th best team in the country. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:25:15 03/17/24 Sun Big difference between 14 and 10. But points for artful backtracking. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 23:40:36 03/16/24 Sat Berube is a great coach and I hope she opts to finish her career at Princeton. And unlike the men’s team, this is a deep team and, while it relies significantly on its bench strength for its height, it is also longer. The Columbia website has about a minute of Griffith reading her case for an at-large bid. Part of her case is that Columbia tied P for the league title the last two years and look how well P does and P was ranked when Columbia beat us this year. That must have been a tough sentence to say publicly, after last season’s public, “We’re better than them. There I said it.” That was Her remark at some point after beating us once last season. It would be great if they did get a bid, but I don’t know if the committee will agree. I do believe one of the also rans in the last 5 seasons will be able to knock the crown off our heads next year. In the past, we have lost one League superstar and some supporting cast. We will lose two superstars and a valuable third starter next season. But more basketball to be played before then. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Tiger81 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:18:11 03/17/24 Sun Bengal - you also predicted Princeton would lose yesterday if Columbia played to 90% of its ability! Abbey Hsu said her team lost because they didn’t play “Columbia basketball”. The other side of the coin is that the Tigers won because they played “Princeton basketball”. The Lions were soundly defeated because Princeton performed at a very high level, one we have seen often this season against first-rate teams. For the “glass half full” perspective on next season … The league is getting better every year and there is a lot of talent to contend with. But there is no question that the Tigers will be returning a lot of firepower. The outstanding class of first-years (Belker, Chea, Bickley, Tall, plus Tabitha Amanze who was playing her first full season) will have the opportunity to fill the vacuum left by the departures of Chen, Mitchell and Nweke. Chet Nweke was not an impact player until this season and it is not a stretch to imagine Parker Hill, Paige Morton or Taylor Charles also taking a big step up as upperclasswomen. Mitchell will leave an especially huge hole, but so did Alarie, Meyers, Cunningham, Stone, etc. Coach Berube has put together a program that reloads and is hard to play against and I don’t think next year will be an exception. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Bengal [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:17:47 03/17/24 Sun T81: while I expressed it inartfully, my point in that post was if we play like we did in some of the games I saw in latter part of the season, including the home Y/ Brown games where we were beat on more back cuts than I can remember in 4 games last season and the offense was playing as it had a slight fever AND Columbia played at 90%, we would lose (line we already demonstrated once). We beat them then because we were clearly the more talented, deeper team. I said we needed to regain our Top 25 level of play to win and we did. Hsu’s comment is partly an internalization of her coach’s prior post game comments after losses to P where it is a lot about whether her players want it enough and not playing their game etc, which I am sure is at least partly aimed at motivation. And while Columbia is an excellent team with a deadly sharp shooting elite player and very good supporting cast, tied for the last 2 league titles and displacing Penn as the second best team in the League. Meanwhile MLAX scores 6 straight to tie Cornell at the half 8-8. And a tidbit because I know we are kindred fans: it isn’t public yet, but we should have important 5th years back in the fall; not everyone who could have come back but, if it holds, a consequential group. Joisey: Totally agree that Tabbie can be a big difference maker and I have been keeping track of her since her senior year. With the injury taking away that senior year and another injury taking away all but a few minutes of her frosh year, she hasn’t played since her junior year of high school. Watching her get limited minutes this year, she needed to get both her legs and her feet into game shape at the Div 1 level. So many times I have seen both M and W players get better, I am hopeful she will have a breakthrough season by the time Ivies resume play. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: joiseyfan [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:18:16 03/17/24 Sun Bengal has multiple valid points of concern, and there is a striking assortment of talent returning across the league next year. But I keep hearing Nweke’s “little” sister has a legitimate chance to start as a frosh next year, although cracking that lineup will be a challenge. Meanwhile, my focus is on Amanze — if she’s 95% healthy, the Ellie Mitchell problem may be solved. St. Rose continues to improve, which is saying something. With Berube riding herd over the defense, it’s really hard to see who’s going to beat them at Jadwin, so the window for the rest of the league is narrow. I guess I come down a little on T81’s side, with respect. When things seem muddled, I keep remembering that Berube’s record at Princeton is now 100-16. Not a typo. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: M3 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 01:30:08 03/17/24 Sun Columbia/Griffith/Hsu deserve a bid Lets hope they get one [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: Old Lion (congratulations) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 06:57:51 03/17/24 Sun To Princeton on a decisive win. I would feel better about Meg’s argument if last night had been a closer game. I think a 17 point loss is going to hurt Columbia’s chances, especially since Penn almost knocked off Princeton and we were never quite in last night’s game. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: The Mountain Lion [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:22:18 03/17/24 Sun I agree with everyone's comments while noting also that the ESPN announcer for Princeton's game with Penn had it right when he said at the start of the game that Princeton was less motivated than Penn because it knew that it was going to receive an NCAA Bid regardless whether it defeated Penn. Princeton eventually did enough to defeat a good Penn team, but Columbia had to expend much more energy than Princeton to defeat an excellent Harvard Team. As before, the question remains whether any knowledgable fan on this Board really believes that the eight Ivy League Athletic Directors actually understand how the NET works and, in particular, that was going to be used to determine Ivy League Tournament seedings in the event of a tie. The odds against all eight AD's knowing that are probably at least a thousand to one. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: ILT WBB Final - Princeton 75 Columbia 58 Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:33:31 03/17/24 Sun They all know, they just can't do much about it because that would require non-conference teams to be willing to schedule them. Although some ivy teams may be trying to schedule easier to build confidence. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]