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Subject: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: An Observer [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 16:44:10 03/26/24 Tue Well, it's happening and it's unfolding just as we thought it would. Malik Mack and Tyler Perkins have entered the transfer portal. Speculation surrounds Danny Wolf and Xaivian Lee. This is gonna get worse before it gets better. When you're not sure how to win the rat race, get out of the race. I'd rather let the power conferences and wannabe conferences get into the cesspool of NIL money and transfer portal free agency. Let them fight it out and determine the rules of engagement. Right now, we are bringing a knife to their gun fight. We could definitely afford a gun if we wanted to get organized and start opening checkbooks. I hope we don't, at least for now. It's going to get, as Hobbes said, "nasty and brutish" before we know how bad it will be. Let's not join the fight until we see whether it's a knife fight, a gun fight or full on nuclear armageddon. If it turns out that the future rules of engagement are tolerable, we can always join the fight at that time. If not, we'll either drop down to Division III or some other sad option, but one that allows us to compete as we wish. It'll be an unfortunate demotion, but I would be okay with it. I have limited interest in rooting for teams composed mostly of well paid professional athletes who have little in common with their fellow students. We are running academic institutions, remember? [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Ivy Patriot [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:04:23 03/26/24 Tue Going into the portal doesn't mean they will leave. Certainly they have a right to see investigate their free market value. Here's hoping they decide to stay put but it is hard to blame them for looking. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Richard (Kent) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:55:29 03/26/24 Tue C'mon, this is just silly. No way Ivy athletic alumni and boosters permit the drop to D-3. The Monday after Yale-Harvard football is a premium giving day. The publicity that Princeton garnered after the Sweet 16 couldn't be purchased for millions of marketing dollars.The lack of NIL and collectives is, as I posited previously absurd. Many Ivy grads would jump in in a second if they payments were deductible. I know this for a fact.Why does Brian Earl run,not walk to a sub-par conference. How does Mack eschew a Harvard drgree and access to the alumni network? Please tell me that many of you would't donate $500-$1000 to a collective to assist the scholar-athletes at your universities. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: FWIW Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:44:13 03/26/24 Tue Anyone who claims that he fears that the Ivy is headed to D-III but doesn't also mention the Dayton Rule isn't being serious... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: FWIW Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:08:01 03/26/24 Tue For years whenever anybody has bemoaned a potential drop down to Division III, you've mentioned the Dayton Rule. And it's been a relevant consideration, so that's all good. In case you haven't noticed, the earth has started to shift and we are standing astride the San Andreas fault. Mentioning the Dayton Rule now is like a police officer reminding us that seat belts are mandatory as the other cars on the highway accelerate up to NASCAR speeds and we are still at 55 mph. Or to put it in terms that a Dartmouth graduate would absorb, you're the guy at the end of "Animal House" who tells everybody, "Remain calm. All is well" as Blutarsky and friends have started ransacking the downtown area and carrying away the beautiful blonde. The bad news for you is that the Dayton Rule is going to be left behind like the vestige of the old world that it is. It will no longer be relevant. The NCAA may not exist next year, so I'm not sure who would enforce it anyway. The good news is that one of us is going to become a United States Senator. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: FWIW Author: Sp [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:38:14 03/26/24 Tue These days, that could be the booby prize. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: If the NCAA disappears or gets rid of the Dayton Rule, we will talk.. Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 07:31:45 03/27/24 Wed Until then, you're to have to acknowledge that if the Ivy goes D-III in football or basketball, it will have to go D-III in all sports. And that doesn't seem plausible, does it? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If the NCAA disappears or gets rid of the Dayton Rule, we will talk.. Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:41:36 03/27/24 Wed A year or two ago, how plausible was it that schools in CA would join the ACC? How plausible that "student athletes" would be getting openly paid more than pro players? AO is right. The Dayton Rule is purely a product of its time and circumstances, which have clearly changed. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If the NCAA disappears or gets rid of the Dayton Rule, we will talk.. Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:09:37 03/27/24 Wed If the NCAA disappears, the most likely result is the Power 2 (or maybe Power 3) and... everyone else. Maybe there's some formation of divisions thereafter. But the Ivy will most likely be playing the same schools that it always has. There is just no reason to think that the Ivy will be relegated to playing Amherst, Williams, etc. whereas Colgate, Holy Cross, UNH, etc. play the military academies, UConn, and other D-1 leftovers. So please, enough with the Chicken Little D-III stuff... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If the NCAA disappears or gets rid of the Dayton Rule, we will talk.. Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:54:19 03/27/24 Wed First of all, the world has changed. Try to see beyond the immediate future. In my San Andreas analogy, you can see that the 50-story office building next to you is coming down. Dwayne the Rock Johnson and Alexandra D'Addario are coming up Wilshire Boulevard using a boat with an outboard motor, but you look around your own office and think, "So far, so good." The old Los Angeles is over. We can't predict how the new one will look, but we can predict with confidence that the old one is gone. Secondly, to me, Division III is no longer a Chicken Little calamity. That's the whole point of this thread. Read the headline. We run some of the best academic institutions in the country (although, to be fair, that may be changing, too). Following Ivy League sports and rooting for our teams has been fun in part because the kids are bona fide students. Richard Kent wants to get the Steve Ballmers to open up their checkbooks. And that's one choice available to us. I'm not interested. Why outspend your rival in the arms race when you have no interest in being in the arms race? I don't need to beat Auburn or Baylor or Arizona or Missouri to enjoy following Ivy League sports. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: If the NCAA disappears or gets rid of the Dayton Rule, we will talk.. Author: sparman [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:54:43 03/27/24 Wed It's not Chicken Little, it's considering options and developments. The landscape is changing. You can keep your head in the sand and pretend nothing will happen, or you can try to assess. Ivies may be playing the same schools, but some of those may be in a new division with new rules. D-3 may not continue to have the same parameters as currently. I am not predicting anything other than the possibility of changed rules, as opposed to your apparent view that they are immutable. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: That sounds a lot like what happened in 1981 Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:21:07 03/27/24 Wed And I think Ivy football has been just fine since then. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: That sounds a lot like what happened in 1981 Author: observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 13:01:04 03/27/24 Wed The gate suggests otherwise. It all depends on perspective. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Tiger69 [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:53:16 03/26/24 Tue I would like to think that Princeton in particular and the Ivies in general are more cohesive and have more to offer and will therefore not be dragged down into the mud. But, if I am wrong we may eventually be headed for Division III. If I’m still around then the Ivy Championships will remain just as important to me. Being a Tiger fan will always be special. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: I'm missing the part where this is new stuff... Author: Go Green [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:27:14 03/26/24 Tue Dartmouth lost its best player to transfer for four or five years in a row. I don't remember you bemoaning anything about that... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'm missing the part where this is new stuff... Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:09:46 03/26/24 Tue This is different because now it's Harvard's best player. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: Giving up an Ivy education for the NIL is short-sited. Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:11:22 03/26/24 Tue No doubt some Ivy players may take advantage of the transfer portal or NIL deals, but in reality the opportunity cost can be huge. We have a family friend who was a three time All-Ivy football selection and played in the NFL for three seasons but ended early primarily due to injuries. Meanwhile he has remained with the same banking giant his entire career where he is a managing director. The money he has earned from his Ivy League degree completely dwarfs the best NIL or even a full NFL career. There are hundreds of similar stories throughout the Ivy League. Moving to another school for a bigger basketball or football opportunity is probably never going to pan out for most of these student-athletes. Go Ivy League!!! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: Giving up an Ivy education for the NIL is short-sited. Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:25:56 03/26/24 Tue On the rare occasions when I have the ear of a young person just starting out on their career, I usually tell them that their first job is to figure out who they are and what will make them happy. A lot of college students see what their classmates are doing and jump to the conclusion that it's what they should do as well. For some people, what makes them happy really is money. But for many, it's not money or at least it's far from exclusively money. Even for the folks for whom money will make them happy or they THINK money will make them happy, I advise them, "If you want to chase money, then chase money. But make sure you chase LONG-TERM money." [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Fear the Quaker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09:32:41 03/27/24 Wed I think deep breaths should be taken by all. The fanfare over NIL may abate. As more young men and women chase the dollars, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow could deplete. There are only so many Caitlin Clarks that are really going to hit the jackpot. Possibly, I am in the minority, but I really am not concerned about competing with a Kentucky or a St. Johns where Jordan Dingle transferred too. I like watching Penn play. I am not concerned about the opponent, and I do not care if a kid chooses to leave. I wish him or her the best. Go Quakers!!! [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: RedWin [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:06:56 03/27/24 Wed Yale could have used Caitlin Clark this weekend vs. San Diego State. Wow she can really hit the three point shot with accuracy. Great to see women's basketball continue to grow thanks to exciting players like Caitlin Clark! Regardless college basketball or any other sport, needs to be academics first and athletics second. Most will never make the pros and those kids are screwed if they come out of school with no viable skills. It's a very short 4-5 year window. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Fear the Quaker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:22:12 03/27/24 Wed So right, most will not be going pro. Go Big Red Hockey in the NCAA. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Old Lion (Malin Mack) [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:07:49 03/27/24 Wed Is there any truth to the story that he has entered the transfer pool? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: IvySportsJunkie [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 14:18:55 03/27/24 Wed In terms of not trying to keep up with how the other Big Boy leagues are adapting to NIL and the transfer portal, I think we have significant historical precedent in how our conference is managed. Over the past several decades, the Ivy League has consistently taken a path increasingly different from the Power Five Conferences. This has resulted in fewer 5 and 4 star football and basketball recruits selecting the Ivy League. Yet, during this same period, our admissions applicant pools and our endowments have skyrocketed. Thus, I do not see a scenario where the Ivy League Presidents will seek to change our position on student athletes. That said, my guess is that the Ivy League administrators will eventually be forced to provide from of NIL compensation opportunities due to a forthcoming legal challenge and ruling. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: An Observer [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 15:56:50 03/27/24 Wed I agree with IvySportsJunkie that, if the Ivy presidents took action to prohibit or manage NIL collectives, it would only take one knucklehead, like the basketball player at Dartmouth, to challenge and, in this case, probably win his case. NILs and collectives are legal, unfortunately. On the other hand, the eight athletic departments could agree informally not to take any action to initiate a collective on their school's platform. That's a tricky area legally, I presume, but if no attempt is made to prevent others from doing so, it might draw less attention. Then we would wait until some grown-up knucklehead like Tom Stemberg says, "You know what? It's really important to me that my alma mater win in a sport where we've struggled historically. I'm going to donate millions and upset decades of precedent to make it happen." Then we'll be off to the races. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> Subject: Re: I'd Rather Stay Out of The Cesspool For Now Author: Lurker [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:35:10 03/27/24 Wed Am i wrong here? I thought NIL was permitted so long as the university was not involved directly. I always thought that meant the relationships between programs and collectives were like political campaigns and Super-PACs If my understanding is indeed correct, there is absolutely nothing stopping a certain nfl team owner from offering every member of the Col squad $100k (can we all wish that into reality?) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]